panel pictures desired

[LarryFine]

I agree with everything you said except:

now i use tie raps to keep the EGC, ungrounded and grounded conductors all in one bunch.

Unless I'm working in a large enclosure with mostly stranded wire, in which case I use Velcro straps instead of nylon ties, I never strap wires together. There's nothing horrible about it, I just find it unnessary. To wit:

Not a tie in the box. Like you, I dress panels like this by habit, and not prettied up for pictures. It makes troubleshooting and changes so much easier. Plus, it plain-old looks like we know what we're doing.

About 25 years ago, I wired a good-sized, gutted-and-reconstructed, all-electric farmhouse for my now-ex father-in-law. I wasn't present for the inspection, but I was told the inspector looked at the panel and said he didn't need to look at anything else.

 

[LarryFine]

I am interested, however, as to why all the grounds are landed on the right side of the panel and there's an extra ground bar (that's empty) over on the left...:-?

That's because you're looking at an illegal panel. The EGC's should be landed on the unused buses (there are two).

Notice that the installer didn't know what to do with the bare EGC in the SER.

 

[480sparky]

That's because you're looking at an illegal panel. The EGC's should be landed on the unused buses (there are two).

Notice that the installer didn't know what to do with the bare EGC in the SER.

An illegal panel? Why? Did it cross the Rio Grande without a passport?

I was wondering when someone was going to notice that this is a subpanel and the neutrals & grounds weren't seperated.

 

[frizbeedog]

An illegal panel? Why? Did it cross the Rio Grande without a passport?

I was wondering when someone was going to notice that this is a subpanel and the neutrals & grounds weren't seperated.

Como se what.....?

The ground in the SER is what they use in Mehico as the strain relief for an overhead feed when using the SERveza method.

In this application it's not needed..:roll: :smile:

 

[electricalperson]

I agree with everything you said except:
Unless I'm working in a large enclosure with mostly stranded wire, in which case I use Velcro straps instead of nylon ties, I never strap wires together. There's nothing horrible about it, I just find it unnessary. To wit:

Not a tie in the box. Like you, I dress panels like this by habit, and not prettied up for pictures. It makes troubleshooting and changes so much easier. Plus, it plain-old looks like we know what we're doing.

About 25 years ago, I wired a good-sized, gutted-and-reconstructed, all-electric farmhouse for my now-ex father-in-law. I wasn't present for the inspection, but I was told the inspector looked at the panel and said he didn't need to look at anything else.

i never used too do it until the 08 code. it says you need to keep multiwire branch circuits tied together so i decided to do it with all circuits and i like the way it looks

 

[jrannis]

This was 600s and 750s no tywraps, staples or trees needed. It all seemed to just lay there.

 

[ultramegabob]

This was 600s and 750s no tywraps, staples or trees needed. It all seemed to just lay there.

Very nice!

 

[76nemo]

I'd like to shoot the guys that make those ridiculous "loops" in that panel Peter posted. I'm not kidding, I want them dead.

Guess I am dead,.... finally:roll: I don't care if it #1,3,2,4 so on and so forth. I come in top fed, run to the bottom of the panel and back up to the designation. When you have to move the panel later on, you can send me a thank you note for leaving thee extra:roll:

 

[76nemo]

thats a factory electricians method of wiring a panel, it allows you to move circuits around to balance an imbalanced panel, not typically done on the neutrals or grounds though.... and you dont typically have too much problem with imbalanced loads in a residence anyway....

Wait a minute Bob, don't shoot us factory electricians down. What, upon what, do you see the need to shoot down slack of the entrances???? Honestly, what is wrong with leaving slack for a replacement in resi services?
Don't tell me it looks sloppy, 'cause it looks just fine if done right. I have 20/20 vision. Wait a minute, that sounded sarcastic. I didn't mean it THAT way. Do you run JB's straight to the point with no slack to rework????

 

[ultramegabob]

Wait a minute Bob, don't shoot us factory electricians down. What, upon what, do you see the need to shoot down slack of the entrances???? Honestly, what is wrong with leaving slack for a replacement in resi services?
Don't tell me it looks sloppy, 'cause it looks just fine if done right. I have 20/20 vision. Wait a minute, that sounded sarcastic. I didn't mean it THAT way. Do you run JB's straight to the point with no slack to rework????

im not shooting anyone down, didnt say it was a bad idea, just made the comment that is is a factory electricians method, and explained the reason they do it, it may be a generalization, and im sure not all do it, its not a slam... I really dont know how you read that into what i wrote.

 

[mdshunk]

This was 600s and 750s no tywraps, staples or trees needed. It all seemed to just lay there.

Looks like a pile of those flaky macadapts used on them also.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

One of the issues with leaving slack of the conductor length in a panel for "future" working of the panel is, the gutter space may be completely taken up, even surpassing the 40% that is permitted for conductor space.

 

[peter d]

One of the issues with leaving slack of the conductor length in a panel for "future" working of the panel is, the gutter space may be completely taken up, even surpassing the 40% that is permitted for conductor space.

If you actually run the numbers, filling the gutter space that much is pretty hard to do.

 

[chris kennedy]

Not sure how that happened. Wrong thread.

 

[iwire]

If you actually run the numbers, filling the gutter space that much is pretty hard to do.

All but imposable. :smile:

The gutter space in a typical residential panel can accommodate more then two hundred seventy 12 AWGs at 40% fill.

You would need a hammer to get it done.

 

[JohnJ0906]

You would need a hammer to get it done.

Shhhh! You'll give someone ideas!

 

[jrannis]

Looks like a pile of those flaky macadapts used on them also.

Just over $3,000 worth of them on that job counting the ones in the three ATSs

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

If you actually run the numbers, filling the gutter space that much is pretty hard to do.

I agree, but there are times when each and every circuit is doubled up in the panel and there is very little room...I am sure we have all seen it.

 

[jimmy_mcquade]

thanks everyone,

looking at the pictures i can see what quality work is.
i'm sorry to say that dad got a cross between noodles and a rat's nest with his
recent panel work.

thanks again,
jimmy

 

[iaov]

There's neat, as in "good enough" and there's neat as in "anal". There's a time and place for each. Good work is often a tradeoff someplace between neat and quick.

Well said!!:smile: