Panel Relocate

[ElectricianJeff]

Next week I am upgrading a home from 60 to 200 amp. I am relocating the breaker panel from the basement to the garage. My plan is to extend all the branch circuits, about 25 or so, out of the basement up an inside wall of the garage sleeved in 2" PVC, pop across the garage attic and then down into the service panel.

My plan is to combine as many of the 120V circuits into MWBC's to reduce the number of romex wires I will need to pull. Is there any problems, code or otherwise, to do it in this fashion? Basically I would be running about 6 12/3's from my service panel to my junction box in the basement and then splitting each one out to 2 12/2's. I would be putting these circuits on 2 pole breakers even though we are not on the '08 code. I have done this in new construction many times. Does it make a difference because these are existing circuits? Also, I suspect but haven't checked yet that some of the older circuits are 2 wire with no EGC. Does this fact affect my plan.

I'm second guessing myself on this for some reason.

 

[Buck Parrish]

The sleeve may cause some heat issues. Can you use running boards instead?
While I would certainally utilize a few multi wire branch circuits. All of them may be confusing or not look as professional.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I see no reason that a MWBC cannot be used however this does cause problems later if someone wanted to put an AFCI on the circuit.

The other problem is the fill in the conduit. You will have to do some derating on the number of wires in the conduit. Since it is a garage I would be tempted to sway the owner to open up the wall and get my wires there rather than a conduit where heating will occur.

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Can you use running boards instead?

Thanks, I really hadn't thought of that for some reason.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Thanks, I really hadn't thought of that for some reason.

Some inspectors would not want running boards where the wire goes down low. They may cite protection from harm. You could just build a small box around the wires also. Couple of 2x4 and some plywood. If you screw the plywood on then someone would be able to get future circuits to the house at a later date.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Thanks, I really hadn't thought of that for some reason.

Your welcome.

And AFCI's come in two pole, shared neutrals. But your install will not require them, now.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Some inspectors would not want running boards where the wire goes down low. They may cite protection from harm. You could just build a small box around the wires also. Couple of 2x4 and some plywood. If you screw the plywood on then someone would be able to get future circuits to the house at a later date.

Yes , just what I was thinking. A 2x4 running board on each side. Plywood or sheet rock on and between the 2x4's

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Yes , just what I was thinking. A 2x4 running board on each side. Plywood or sheet rock on and between the 2x4's

Exactly what I'm thinking but will use plywood covered with sheet rock for additioonal protection. I'm doing this for the guy thats buying the house. He will be doing other work there so I will sweet talk him into mudding it.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Buck Parrish]

Exactly what I'm thinking but will use plywood covered with sheet rock for additioonal protection. I'm doing this for the guy thats buying the house. He will be doing other work there so I will sweet talk him into mudding it.

Thanks again guys!

Sheetrock or plywood is fine. You don't need both...Just saying

 

[petersonra]

why not just leave the existing panel as is and make it a feeder off the new box?

 

[LarryFine]

I use MWBC's for this purpose whenever possible. If you have an odd number of circuits, you can use one 2-cable, or go ahead and run another 3-wire anyway as a spare.

The other problem is the fill in the conduit. You will have to do some derating on the number of wires in the conduit.

Using all MWBC's can halve the quantity of CCC's. You can even combine a 15a and a 20a circuit on a 12/3 as long as you protect each circuit at its rating.

 

[satcom]

why not just leave the existing panel as is and make it a feeder off the new box?

Bob, that would be my choice also

 

[growler]

why not just leave the existing panel as is and make it a feeder off the new box?

Bob, that would be my choice also

If there is room at the existing location this would be my choice also. The only thing different is that I would replace the little 60A panel ( which is probably a fuse panel ) with a 100A breaker panel ( main lug ). Wouldn't take very long or be expensive in materials and would make a neat looking job.

 

[IrishRugger]

If there is room at the existing location this would be my choice also. The only thing different is that I would replace the little 60A panel ( which is probably a fuse panel ) with a 100A breaker panel ( main lug ). Wouldn't take very long or be expensive in materials and would make a neat looking job.

I agree that would be a good course of action. It would be practical and professional looking

 

[LarryFine]

I agree that would be a good course of action. It would be practical and professional looking

And allow for a bit of expansion from that point.

 

[220/221]

20 circuits on a 60 amp service?

Heh heh, probably 10 original huh?

I generally refeed 2 wire with 2 wire. If it's an old ungrounded circuit, GFCI's may be appropriate and the three wire would nix that idea.

 

[mlnk]

Install a new 100 sub in the basement.

 

[LarryFine]

20 circuits on a 60 amp service?

Heh heh, probably 10 original huh?

Often, a main pullout, a range pullout, and two or four plug fuses. A 10-circuit would be an upgrade.

A house with gas could conceivably run 10 circuits on a 60a service.

 

[ElectricianJeff]

Often, a main pullout, a range pullout, and two or four plug fuses. A 10-circuit would be an upgrade.

A house with gas could conceivably run 10 circuits on a 60a service.

Exactly what I have plus several subs. 3 I think.

The previous owner was very creative. Washing machine is powered off the 240V dryer recep. Piped 1/2" emt right out of the side of the receptacle.

I should run every job by you guys. Your making my head spin.

I haven't been at this all that long and one of my weaknesses (I have several, just ask my wife)is failing to look at all my options when it comes to designing a job. I need to work on that.

Thanks again.....