panel upgrades

D

danselectricalcontracting

Member
Location
Irvine
Occupation
electrical contractor
I'm curious how you all go about doing panel changes with regards to shutting down/disconnecting power feeding existing panel. Is the power company supposed to disconnect or can I do it? I'm dealing with Edison and they are telling me they don't do that, but the meter is locked/tagged. Am I supposed to take that off and disconnect power on my own so I can remove existing old panel and replace with new upgraded panel? Procedurally what is the best and most appropriate way of doing this. This is a main metered service panel.
 
As you've said it can vary widely based on your particular POCO. Around here we call the POCO and they remove any locks. We cut the service conductors at the drop, install the new service and then reconnect to the drop. This is all done in one day so that there is the shortest amount of customer downtime. After that we have a local inspection. Eventually the POCO inspector will come, approve, and the poco will then make permanent connections to the drop.
 
infinity said:
As you've said it can vary widely based on your particular POCO. Around here we call the POCO and they remove any locks. We cut the service conductors at the drop, install the new service and then reconnect to the drop. This is all done in one day so that there is the shortest amount of customer downtime. After that we have a local inspection. Eventually the POCO inspector will come, approve, and the poco will then make permanent connections to the drop.
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Are you saying you still do that hot? I know many people have done that many times, but our company among many no longer allows us to do things like that hot.
 
Strathead said:
Are you saying you still do that hot? I know many people have done that many times, but our company among many no longer allows us to do things like that hot.
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Yup. Fiberglass ladder, insulated tools, rubber mats if needed, gloves, ETC. It's funny I watched the lineman when they came to do the final connections and he used less PPE than me.
 
I used to do service changes hot all the time but now the power company won't allow it. I actually changed a service with an underground feed where I had to remove the old meter and install a new one. I did it hot but that wasn't the smartest thing to do. It got done with no oops so I was lucky. I wouldn't ask my men to do it and they were very happy about that. lol
 
I don't think Edison is okay with you touching anything line side of the main without their permission. At least from my experience with them. And if they gave you permission, you should have that in writing. If it was the slightest misunderstanding, and you are in a high fire threat zone, and they see splices they didn't put in, then you and the home owner are going to have a bad time.

7.0 from Edison's ESR " The Company (Edison) shall make the connections between its service drop conductors and the
supply end of the customer’s service-entrance conductors."

I think you need to be more clear with Edison that you are replacing service equipment and not panels. Use the right terms and they will respond accordingly. They should have already approved the meter location and EUSERC equipment (meter socket).

That goes for most of the utilities in California. There are only a few that might be okay with you using the meter as a disconnect but most are not. The meter is not meant to disconnect load and any tampering or damage to the meter can put you back in the same spot trying to get the service re-energized. Most utilities also do not allow customers to make connection to utility overhead drops, in California.
 
Here in MA all the POCOs allow a licensed electrician to cut and reconnect 200 amp and smaller residential overhead services as far as I know.

Some of them require you to fill out and submit another form.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I used to do service changes hot all the time but now the power company won't allow it. I actually changed a service with an underground feed where I had to remove the old meter and install a new one. I did it hot but that wasn't the smartest thing to do. It got done with no oops so I was lucky. I wouldn't ask my men to do it and they were very happy about that. lol
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I did an underground once. The service came into an old two family into a metal duct box then two conduits out of that one to each meter.

1 apartment had a bad meter socket old "A" base meter. That was years ago don't think I would do it again.
 
Used to be Ga Pwr wouldn't let me pull meter but EMC would, now the both won't let me, in fact payed a $150 fine a few years ago

I've changed out main breaker panels hot to avoid POCO issues, don't know of I'd do it now
 
PG&E territory here. We don’t touch anything line side of the meter.

PG$E comes and disconnects in the morning at the weatherhead, we replace the panel, weather head, and pull new SE conductors with a long tail, get a city or county inspection, and only then, get a reconnect from PG$E.

PG$E will not power up a panel until the inspection sticker is in place. It can make for some long days when you have to add a sub panel, move the panel because it’s too close to the gas meter or some other poco existing violation that we need to correct, extend all the circuits, provide all new bonding and new ground rods, get a county inspection, and then get a reconnect.

Between scheduling PG$E, scheduling county inspection, calling in a locate for the ground rods, getting everything ordered and on the van, and getting it all installed in one day, it takes a lot of coordination

That’s why it’s funny to me when guys claim they bang out 2 a day for $700 bucks each and takes them 2 hours. Bless them if they can pull it off, but that ain’t happening here.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
PG&E territory here. We don’t touch anything line side of the meter.

PG$E comes and disconnects in the morning at the weatherhead, we replace the panel, weather head, and pull new SE conductors with a long tail, get a city or county inspection, and only then, get a reconnect from PG$E.

PG$E will not power up a panel until the inspection sticker is in place. It can make for some long days when you have to add a sub panel, move the panel because it’s too close to the gas meter or some other poco existing violation that we need to correct, extend all the circuits, provide all new bonding and new ground rods, get a county inspection, and then get a reconnect.

Between scheduling PG$E, scheduling county inspection, calling in a locate for the ground rods, getting everything ordered and on the van, and getting it all installed in one day, it takes a lot of coordination

That’s why it’s funny to me when guys claim they bang out 2 a day for $700 bucks each and takes them 2 hours. Bless them if they can pull it off, but that ain’t happening here.
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Done that myself in the Bay area!
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
PG&E territory here. We don’t touch anything line side of the meter.

PG$E comes and disconnects in the morning at the weatherhead, we replace the panel, weather head, and pull new SE conductors with a long tail, get a city or county inspection, and only then, get a reconnect from PG$E.

PG$E will not power up a panel until the inspection sticker is in place. It can make for some long days when you have to add a sub panel, move the panel because it’s too close to the gas meter or some other poco existing violation that we need to correct, extend all the circuits, provide all new bonding and new ground rods, get a county inspection, and then get a reconnect.

Between scheduling PG$E, scheduling county inspection, calling in a locate for the ground rods, getting everything ordered and on the van, and getting it all installed in one day, it takes a lot of coordination

That’s why it’s funny to me when guys claim they bang out 2 a day for $700 bucks each and takes them 2 hours. Bless them if they can pull it off, but that ain’t happening here.
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If they did two a day, I can imagine what it would look like. I would drive ground rods and run all GECs the day before to gain some time and deliver tools and material. Also gives you a chance to get your head in the job and double check material.
 
Eddie702 said:
If they did two a day, I can imagine what it would look like. I would drive ground rods and run all GECs the day before to gain some time and deliver tools and material. Also gives you a chance to get your head in the job and double check material.
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That’s a good idea. 👍

Also keep me from having to bring a generator to run my roto hammer to pound the ground rods.
 
Here in ConEd territory they used to use special locks and hardened security bands on their meters. After many years even they can't get the locks off. So, they just walk away and tell me to have at it. That's when I get out my angle grinder with abrasive disc. You should have seen the looks on the faces of people walking past on the street with all those sparks coming from the electric meter. :ROFLMAO:

-Hal
 
Before cordless tools and battery lights when I changed an overhead service, I would pull the meter and pull the load wires out of the meter socket. Then I had a 30 amp fused disconnect with a receptacle mounted on it it hook that to the meter socket and plug the meter in to get power. Drill holes and use power for lights remove old panel and install new, then come out and do overhead and new SE cable drop to meter.
 
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