panel used as a junction box

[sparky 134]

lets say a contactor is located above a panel with a raceway between it and panel. the circuits that need to be controlled by the contactor are in a raceway that is piped into the same panel. is there a code that states that the circuits cannot be pulled through the panel and into the contactor, thus using the panel as a junction box ?

from my understanding, as long as there is enough room in the panel for the wire this is acceptable...

[ March 15, 2004, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: sparky 134 ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: panel used as a junction box

312.8

 

[sparky 134]

Re: panel used as a junction box

after reading 312.8 it sounds to me like this is acceptable...

[ March 15, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: sparky 134 ]

 

[ryan_618]

Re: panel used as a junction box

You got it!

 

[peter d]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Just to add a footnote here: It seems like a common misconception that splices aren't allowed in a panel. I even got into an argument once about this. Having the trusty book in front of me quickly ended it though.

I have heard many times "The inspector said I couldn't splice in the panel," :roll: therefore requiring expensive extra labor for junction boxes.

 

[sparky 134]

Re: panel used as a junction box

the inspector for the job i am currently working on had a problem with the fact that i did not install grounding bushings on the 5 - 3.5" ridgid conduits that stubbed up into the bottom of my CT cabinet. when asked " why didn't you install grounding bushings ? " i explained to him that the ridgid changed over to ridgid non-metallic conduit in the ground. he said " which code are you following ?" i said " 2002 ". he said " commercial or residential ? ". biting my tongue i replied " commercial ". he said i needed the bushings so i had the owener of our shop verify my understanding of the code and the owner called the inspector to explain, nicely, why we didn't need the bushings. the inspector said " show me in the code book where it says you don't need the bushings and you don't have to install them "

when i have asked him questions on other issues his answer is always "what does the code say ? "

 

[ryan_618]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Did these rigid conduits contain service conductors?

 

[iwire]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Originally posted by sparky 134:
the inspector for the job i am currently working on had a problem with the fact that i did not install grounding bushings on the 5 - 3.5" ridgid conduits that stubbed up into the bottom of my CT cabinet.

I agree with Ryan, it sounds to me like these are service conductors, grounding bushings are required.

when asked " why didn't you install grounding bushings ? " i explained to him that the ridgid changed over to ridgid non-metallic conduit in the ground.

I do not see how that changes the need for bonding the section that is steel.

he said " which code are you following ?" i said " 2002 ". he said " commercial or residential ? ". biting my tongue i replied " commercial ".

Commercial, Residential, 2002, 1990 I do not see how any of that would change the requirements to bond service raceways.

"what does the code say ? "

250.92 Services.

(A) Bonding of Services. The non?current-carrying metal parts of equipment indicated in 250.92(A)(1), (2), and (3) shall be effectively bonded together.

(1)The service raceways, cable trays, cablebus framework, auxiliary gutters, or service cable armor or sheath except as permitted in 250.84.

250.84 will not permit the interior section of raceway not to be bonded.

[ March 16, 2004, 04:23 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[sparky 134]

Re: panel used as a junction box

there is an exception that states that if the rigid metallic conduit is covered by 18" of ground that grounding bushings are not required. my code book is on the jobsite, i will post the code section when i get home....

 

[charlie]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Sparky 134, there is a residential Code, the IRC (International Residential Code) and there are differences. I don't think it applies to this situation however.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: panel used as a junction box

sparky134,
The exception only applies to 90s. See 250.80 Exception or 250.86 Ex.#3. If the 90s are stubbed up into the CT cabinet, they are not covered by 18" of earth. Grounding bushings are required.
Don

 

[sparky 134]

Re: panel used as a junction box

that is the situation, 90's stubbed up into the bottom of the CT cabinet.

 

[eprice]

Re: panel used as a junction box

I agree with Ryan, Don, and Bob (pretty safe to agree with that bunch ). The bushings are required. As Don has mentioned, 250.80 exception comes close, but only applies to elbows, and only if every part of the elbow is covered by a minimum of 18" of earth. A metal raceway emerging from the earth to stub into a cabinet does not fit the exception.

 

[ccha9219]

Re: panel used as a junction box

if they are concentric knock outs you will need bond bushings (before and after the main).
non concetric khock out after the main do not require bond bushings unless spelled out in the job spec.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: panel used as a junction box

If you are talking about a 250-V system I agree with you. Otherwise if the concentrics are listed for grounding I don't see the requirement.

250.97
250.96

 

[stanley]

Re: panel used as a junction box

The service conduit is exposed and could become energized. Safety dictates that the conduits be bonded.

Also there is a NFPA residential code. (70A) It essentially is a compilation of all parts of NFPA 70 that apply to residential wiring.

 

[lady sparks lover]

Re: panel used as a junction box

I've seen this before in the field. I didn't see anything wrong with it, however...i believe there were not breakers left in the panel. Now that might be a problem.

Lady

 

[eprice]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Originally posted by ryan_618:
If you are talking about a 250-V system I agree with you. Otherwise if the concentrics are listed for grounding I don't see the requirement.

250.97
250.96

I am assuming that the conduit stubbed up into the CT cabinet contains service conductors. I believe 250.92 (B) requires something more than "standard locknuts or bushings" If the knockouts are listed for grounding does that overcome the last sentence of the section I cited? I don't think so.

 

[iwire]

Re: panel used as a junction box

eprice, I am confident Ryan was referring to this post.

Originally posted by ccha9219:
if they are concentric knock outs you will need bond bushings (before and after the main).

Specifically the part 'after the main'

 

[ryan_618]

Re: panel used as a junction box

Right.