Panels in Commercial Kitchen

Status
Not open for further replies.
dibloafer

dibloafer

Member
Location
Flagler Beach, FL
I am estimating a small (mom and pop) grocery build-out and the plan show the two existing panels being in the kitchen. The working space about the panels meets code, However, I'm not sure if the location is going to fly because the closest thing to the panels, only a couple feet away on either side, are the dish washing sinks! This falls directly under 110.28, and would be considered a wet location and I need to either put in my bid the relocation of the panels, or the installation of Nema 4 panels, correct? Probably answered my own question, but would love some discussion about it.
~Joshua
 
while in normal condition - the dishwasher is rinsing dishes - will the panel be sprayed -- will the have excessive moisture build up?
 
It is not a dishwasher, rather, a person washing dishes in a huge dish washing area. I imagine there will be a lot of splashing, moisture, etc... It's definitely something that would give me great pause if I were the inspector.
 
dibloafer said:
It is not a dishwasher, rather, a person washing dishes in a huge dish washing area. I imagine there will be a lot of splashing, moisture, etc... It's definitely something that would give me great pause if I were the inspector.
Click to expand...

Some water gets splashed around, that's not really a reason to not put a panel there. Is somebody going to throw buckets of water at the panel? Turn on a hose and aim it?
 
Mom and Pop operation, dishwashing sink. They probably won't even get used.

I'm kind of joking but one of the restaurants around hear got something like a 32 on their heatlh inspection.

The only inspection that may fail a panel for location is the health inspector. It wouldn't be easy to clean the grease and crud off an electrical panel and breakers. Anything in a wash down area might be considered a damp location.
 
ActionDave said:
Some water gets splashed around, that's not really a reason to not put a panel there. Is somebody going to throw buckets of water at the panel? Turn on a hose and aim it?
Click to expand...
I guess not. The location of the panels just looks very suspect on the drawing, but there is no solid code violation. I can just see some AHJ's (including myself, if I were one) being a tightwad about it.
:cool:
 
If it meets the definition of a wet location then install panels designed for a wet location. We have installed all stainless panels in commercial kitchens, something like a NEMA 12.
 
dibloafer said:
I am estimating a small (mom and pop) grocery build-out... it is not a dishwasher, rather, a person washing dishes in a huge dish washing area.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the dish washing area is bigger than the small (mom and pop) grocery. :eek:hmy:
If they have no dining customers what is the "dish pit" for? Do they maybe have a butcher department where they have to wash knives and such? I agree with others that I doubt it will get much use but that is besides the point. If it is subject to spray or steam it needs to be dealt with.

-Hal
 
dibloafer said:
I guess not. The location of the panels just looks very suspect on the drawing, but there is no solid code violation.
I can just see some AHJ's (including myself, if I were one) being a tightwad about it
Click to expand...
. But why?
:cool:
Click to expand...


Just because you have a sink next to a panel it does not mean you will have water going into the panel and go inside the breakers. Unless it is a location that gets hosed down then I would not consider it a damp location, let alone a wet location.

It is like some people get uptight about having no GFCI under the kitchen sink just in case there is water leak from the pipes. I always say the first concern should be the leak not the lack of GFCI.
 
hbiss said:
Sounds like the dish washing area is bigger than the small (mom and pop) grocery. :eek:hmy:
If they have no dining customers what is the "dish pit" for? Do they maybe have a butcher department where they have to wash knives and such? I agree with others that I doubt it will get much use but that is besides the point. If it is subject to spray or steam it needs to be dealt with.

-Hal
Click to expand...
It is a Lebanese Hookah lounge/restaurant/grocery.
 
dibloafer said:
Wouldn't it reflect good on me to catch this at this stage and make provisions for it? A big change order after a contract price was agreed upon, or after an inspector fails it in the late stages of the job?
Click to expand...

Are you competitively bidding this job?
 
growler said:
Mom and Pop operation, dishwashing sink. They probably won't even get used.

I'm kind of joking but one of the restaurants around hear got something like a 32 on their heatlh inspection.

The only inspection that may fail a panel for location is the health inspector. It wouldn't be easy to clean the grease and crud off an electrical panel and breakers. Anything in a wash down area might be considered a damp location.
Click to expand...
Health inspector is something else that can come into play here even if it passes electrical inspection. The panel located in the vicinity of wash area is a great place for bacterial growth to occur.

hbiss said:
Sounds like the dish washing area is bigger than the small (mom and pop) grocery. :eek:hmy:
If they have no dining customers what is the "dish pit" for? Do they maybe have a butcher department where they have to wash knives and such? I agree with others that I doubt it will get much use but that is besides the point. If it is subject to spray or steam it needs to be dealt with.

-Hal
Click to expand...
butcher dept, bakery, deli, all would have similar sanitation requirements as a restaurant.

Looks like your question is maybe answered:

dibloafer said:
It is a Lebanese Hookah lounge/restaurant/grocery.
Click to expand...
 
cdslotz said:
Bid it like it's drawn....ask questions later
Click to expand...
That's what I would do. If the design team missed something it can be discussed / questioned in the preconstruction meeting or you can submit an RFI when you get started.

Roger
 
roger said:
That's what I would do. If the design team missed something it can be discussed / questioned in the preconstruction meeting or you can submit an RFI when you get started.

Roger
Click to expand...
If competitive bidding that is about what you need to do, if you know you are doing the job and are just giving them an estimate for budgeting reasons, you need to address this now.
 
roger said:
No "about" to it, that is what you need to do.

Roger
Click to expand...


That was the reason for my question. If you address it pre-bid in an RFI, the arch/engineer gives all of your competition the same scope to price. So the fix is now included in a competitive bid

Don't show your hand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top