parallel conductors

[iceworm]

Yes. Per unit (or percentage) is an excellent design tool for modeling the real world.

That's a matter of opinion. I find that per unit and percentages can often be erroneously applied. ...

That is ludicrous. You're joking - right? Say it isn't so, Joe. If you're not goofing with me that is pretty well the end of any technical conversation.

As for opinion, I've got the entire engineering community on my side - Eckles, Stephenson, Blackburn, IEEE in general. So if you're not goofing with me, you need a better finder.

Okay, I give up, it's a joke and you are goofing with me:rotflmao:

ice

 

[Smart $]

That is ludicrous. You're joking - right? Say it isn't so, Joe. If you're not goofing with me that is pretty well the end of any technical conversation.

As for opinion, I've got the entire engineering community on my side - Eckles, Stephenson, Blackburn, IEEE in general. So if you're not goofing with me, you need a better finder.

Okay, I give up, it's a joke and you are goofing with me:rotflmao:

ice

I'm not joking... but the scope of the comment wasn't limited to a technical perspective. Per unit and percentage methods are fine when understood by the person applying them. Not everyone has that capability or the understanding to do so. There are many technical aspects you could likely relate to first-year apprentices. How many will pick up on what you try to relate if you keep the subject matter at the engineering level?

 

[iceworm]

I'm not joking... but the scope of the comment wasn't limited to a technical perspective. ..?

Okay. I'll look at this from a philisophical side.
Terminate technical program. Initiate Soc-on-a-Log program. ...... Philosopher now operational - caution system near critical Load. .... Initiate KISS Arithmetic program ....... Calculator finger now operational - WHOOOP - WHOOOP System overload eminent.

... Per unit and percentage methods are fine when understood by the person applying them. Not everyone has that capability or the understanding to do so. There are many technical aspects you could likely relate to first-year apprentices. How many will pick up on what you try to relate if you keep the subject matter at the engineering level?

Well, bob made a similar statement.

While I agree that is the most direct and technically correct way to go I think the calculations required for that are beyond the reach of many, including inspectors

I still maintain:

I give electricians a lot more credit than that. Anybody that can do a load calc, calculate conduit fill derate, or calculate a temperature derate, can handle this.

And yes there plenty that can't or won't.

If first year apprentices don't get it - that's okay. It was not aimed at everyone. Although I would expect some of the first years will get it. You know, the ones you will be working for in a few years.

I have no expectation that an electrician on a pulling crew is going to whip out his calculator and check if the length variation and ampacity headroom are compatible. This was aimed at one that is interested in understanding why a difference in pulling and terminating lengths matter.

I'm not going to argue that anyone has to, or should, learn the concepts of per unit/percentage. I will argue using per unit/percentage turns the parallel conductor math into high school arithmetic.

ice

 

[Smart $]

Okay. I'll look at this from a philisophical side.
Terminate technical program. Initiate Soc-on-a-Log program. ...... Philosopher now operational - caution system near critical Load. .... Initiate KISS Arithmetic program ....... Calculator finger now operational - WHOOOP - WHOOOP System overload eminent.

Hidden text ??? :lol:

I'm not going to argue that anyone has to, or should, learn the concepts of per unit/percentage. I will argue using per unit/percentage turns the parallel conductor math into high school arithmetic.

I'm not going to argue either

 

[iceworm]

Hidden text ??? :lol:

Glad you liked it

I've got to go to work. See all in a month or so

ice

 

[Besoeker]

Do you think we do it for different reasons here? :huh:

I wasn't inferring that anyone anywhere did it for any different reasons.
Nor even that we just do it in UK. We have installations in a lot of different countries around the world.

 

[jusme123]

The one time I did parallel conductors 35+ years ago we laid them out on the ground and cut them all the same length. If we cut a foot off at the end to terminate then we did the same on all the conductors.

I suspect you can do the same when you have phases in different runs of non ferrous conduit but in many cases that would not be an easy task.

.... what if your pulling 500 or 600 MCM, laying them on the floor and cutting them even is not an option?We just run the parallel conduits next to each other as close as practically possible, and pull wire in, the little difference in length is not a factor