Pass the buck or not my fault

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ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Short call this afternoon to help a with a vfd. It wouldn't restart after the water pressure tanks were replaced. I told. Customer to look right of the vfd and locate the high pressure switch. Were the contacts open? No pressure switch there he says, just a blue, red and green wires. WTH?? There should be two other colors as well as a pressure switch. Road trip. Plumber had not reinstalled the pressure switch because it was not on the engineers drawing for the new tanks. How did either one think it would work again? Who do I bill for "Duh"?
 
ptonsparky said:
Short call this afternoon to help a with a vfd. It wouldn't restart after the water pressure tanks were replaced. I told. Customer to look right of the vfd and locate the high pressure switch. Were the contacts open? No pressure switch there he says, just a blue, red and green wires. WTH?? There should be two other colors as well as a pressure switch. Road trip. Plumber had not reinstalled the pressure switch because it was not on the engineers drawing for the new tanks. How did either one think it would work again? Who do I bill for "Duh"?
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the one who called you. it worked before, and they didn't put the parts back.... duh is 'spensive.
 
How 'bout sending a bill to everybody involved and see who sends a check.

On the serious side, we get a lot of calls to fix what someone else screwed up. Whoever makes the call gets the bill. That is explained. Let the other involved parties fight it out.
 
ActionDave said:
How 'bout sending a bill to everybody involved and see who sends a check.

On the serious side, we get a lot of calls to fix what someone else screwed up. Whoever makes the call gets the bill. That is explained. Let the other involved parties fight it out.
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Definitely. Ever been called by a tenant and then have them try to pass it off on the landlord after the work is completed? That's always a fun little bit of stupidity to deal with.
 
Speshulk said:
Definitely. Ever been called by a tenant and then have them try to pass it off on the landlord after the work is completed? That's always a fun little bit of stupidity to deal with.
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I had one where the landlord of a shopping center say that if any of the tenants called about the security lighting not working, go ahead and fix it (high crime area, the Mexican restaurant had Been held up twice) i had done lots of work there for quite a few years. Fixed a couple of pole lights when the dry cleaners called, sent them the bill. Turned out the landlord had passed away (real nice guy) and his cheapskate son in law who now ran the company and refused to pay the bill.
 
If not on print not my job. It is an extra.
Bill who called you , they can then pay you and try to bill an other or eat it.
 
ptonsparky said:
but the plumber just dumbfounded me with "It's not on the print."
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I don't understand because I was not there but if it was not on the print for the job why would you expect him to install it?

As far as he knows along with the tank changes they might be changing controls as well.
 
iwire said:
I don't understand because I was not there but if it was not on the print for the job why would you expect him to install it?

As far as he knows along with the tank changes they might be changing controls as well.
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But that is typical plumbers attitude - even if he knows it will not work. Most electricians on the other hand will see right away it is not going to work as called out in the plans, only the ones that are jerks will just leave it as the plans show, the good ones are going to prepare for a change of plans in one way or another.
 
kwired said:
But that is typical plumbers attitude - even if he knows it will not work. Most electricians on the other hand will see right away it is not going to work as called out in the plans, only the ones that are jerks will just leave it as the plans show, the good ones are going to prepare for a change of plans in one way or another.
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Not that we are stereotyping or anything.

If I see something obviously wrong I will usally bring it up.

As far as changing the plans, no way no how.

That is exactly how I do not get paid, the old no good deed goes unpunished problem.
 
iwire said:
Not that we are stereotyping or anything.

If I see something obviously wrong I will usally bring it up.

As far as changing the plans, no way no how.

That is exactly how I do not get paid, the old no good deed goes unpunished problem.
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What I was getting after was the fact that once you see the plans are not going to work, don't you prepare for a change of plans instead of just leaving it the way the plan was prepared? If you see the installation is not going to work like it should if the pressure switch is not installed don't you either contact the designer that did not have it in the plans or initiate something else to get the job done. The owner only sees it does not work when all is said and done if you simply follow plans. He doesn't care who is at fault either, but will point finger at the installer first.
 
Fulthrotl said:
the one who called you. it worked before, and they didn't put the parts back.... duh is 'spensive.
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I agree, the only person you are even allowed to bill is the one that called you or signed a work order.

It's not really our job to figure out who is an idiot in this world. Engineering dropped the ball and the plumbers failed to pick it up but it could have been and honest mistake ( it's not their job to design the system ).
 
I'm surprised they are using a pressure switch with a drive, I've always used a pressure transducer and a PID loop for water systems.
 
growler said:
I agree, the only person you are even allowed to bill is the one that called you or signed a work order.

It's not really our job to figure out who is an idiot in this world. Engineering dropped the ball and the plumbers failed to pick it up but it could have been and honest mistake ( it's not their job to design the system ).
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It was not the electricians job to design it either yet he is the one that found the design flaw. The plumbers actually removed a component and didn't even question anything (apparently).
 
kwired said:
It was not the electricians job to design it either yet he is the one that found the design flaw. The plumbers actually removed a component and didn't even question anything (apparently).
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I would assume that the electrician was called specifically to trouble-shoot and find the problem.


Plumbers don't normally think about electrical control systems. They are more mechanical.

I bash plumbers every chance I get but I think this is a stretch.

We would need to know how they were contracted to do the job. If this were a simple mechanical install they may have assumed that others were responsible for the controls and start up. Probably should have been an electrician on this job to start with.
 
growler said:
We would need to know how they were contracted to do the job. If this were a simple mechanical install they may have assumed that others were responsible for the controls and start up. Probably should have been an electrician on this job to start with.
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That is how I see it as well.
 
growler said:
I would assume that the electrician was called specifically to trouble-shoot and find the problem.


Plumbers don't normally think about electrical control systems. They are more mechanical.

I bash plumbers every chance I get but I think this is a stretch.

We would need to know how they were contracted to do the job. If this were a simple mechanical install they may have assumed that others were responsible for the controls and start up. Probably should have been an electrician on this job to start with.
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We use the pressure switch as a Auto and enable. One side is control voltage auto start, the other is VFD enable. Normal run control is a 4-20 ma transducer.

Both could be bypassed and everything still function as long as the High pressure blow off would open if needed. Plumbers took the switch out and just let the wires hang. ?? 120v at head level hanging from the ceiling while a half dozen people mill about trying to guess why it won't start.

I'll make more money this way than if I had been notified before hand. Owner called. We had installed the VFD about 4 years ago.
 
At this time in my life I think if it isn't on the print then it is an extra. I would drop a box or have room on a rack, but I see more and more crappy prints and still the I'm smart from the EE and Arch., so screw them. Wait for it to be a cluster and bill them.
We have to have answers NOW! they have answers ohh 4-9weeks after we ask and the say follow the spec. or print. Why did I send an RFI in then? Resend have a meeting... then any ideas how to fix it? Then your price is too high.
I only look out for the few EE that look out for me.
 
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