Rickmar
Member
- Location
- Paramus New Jersey
Can an unlicensed electrician from an appliance store install the cord and plug on a new stove or dryer?
Thanks,
Rick
Thanks,
Rick
PC Richards
- Thread starter Rickmar
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
There is no national answer for this, each area will have their own rules.
Consider this, did a licensed electrician wire it in the factory?
luckylerado
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
Do you need a license to be an appliance repair man?
Rickmar
Member
- Location
- Paramus New Jersey
At the factory it is UL approved as a stand alone product. Now someone else is adding a cord and plug to it.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Yes I understood that, it was simply an example.
Forget my example, what about luckys example?
When an appliance guy goes to a home and swaps out the dryers control board are they licensed?
luckylerado
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake of the Ozarks
The UL approved appliance has a factory hole for a field installed cord that is likely depicted in the manufacturer instructions.
I am curious why you ask?
Nutmegger
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairfield County, Connecticut
The main point of trade licensing is consumer protection.
If an appliance guy limits his electrical work to the scope of his training (appliance repair and replacing parts of those appliances), he is within limits of his qualification, and should be covered by insurance policy of his employer.
Unless it's a union thing or a regional thing, like others said, appliance repair does not fall under electrical licensing requirements.
PC Richards is a major company, at least in this area, and I would imagine their guys are insured against any consequences of their work going wrong (and hopefully are trained enough so there are no "consequences")
If an appliance guy limits his electrical work to the scope of his training (appliance repair and replacing parts of those appliances), he is within limits of his qualification, and should be covered by insurance policy of his employer.
Unless it's a union thing or a regional thing, like others said, appliance repair does not fall under electrical licensing requirements.
PC Richards is a major company, at least in this area, and I would imagine their guys are insured against any consequences of their work going wrong (and hopefully are trained enough so there are no "consequences")
Rickmar
Member
- Location
- Paramus New Jersey
True,
Let me tell you what happened and why I am pissed off. My customer called and told me that she needs a new line for a new stove. But she also said that the store charged her for an installation which includes the cord and plug install. I called the store to find out what the Nema number was for the plug so I can buy the right receptacle. They said what am I talking about . What is a nema number? The store said to go online to GE with the model number of the stove to find out what I am looking for. I told them that the appliance specs won't tell me the Nema number for the after market cord and plug you are installing separately and does not come with the appliance from GE. They also said that the cord they are bringing was a three wire. I said that I am running a 4 wire to the receptacle. They said we sold her a three wire cord and plug. Well I said change the order.
As we all know there are different make ups of how the blades layout on a cord and plug for a 50 amp stove. That's why we have nema numbers to match everything up.
Either the store manager hung up on me or we got disconnected. So Yes that's right, I drove to the store and balled the manager out. I walked to the stove section of the store and lord and behold on the wall are four sample receptacles. I pointed to the receptacles and said there are the nema numbers. Right there!!!!! A-hole. Oh we know only how to sell. Then why are you selling the customer an installation charge with the cord and plug when you have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
I am sorry guys, I blew a gasket. Its just that all these stores, utility companies, and all those middle men companies out there trying to make us buy leads for work is getting to me. They have taken soooo much work away from us. I guess thats my bottom line.
Rick
edlee
Senior Member
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
They usually do it wrong: maybe no connector, and they usually screw up the bonding/ground issue with the 4-wire connection. I wish they WOULD do it right so I don't have to.
And a tip for you: you don't need a NEMA number. The appliance store knows that they are either 3-prong or 4-prong, 30A for a dryer and 50a for a free-standing oven. Those cords and receptacles are made specifically for those appliances, so that's what you ask for at the supply house.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't understand why you called the appliance store. A range cord is a range cord- either 3 wire or 4 wire. You don't need a Nema number
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I don't like it either, but what can you do, there is competition in every business. When it involves technical things the consumer doesn't always know any better and they mostly decide based on price. Even if that store knows what they are doing they can often beat you down on price if they have better purchasing power and can get their items at a lower cost.
You have to sell what your business does and not worry as much about what others are doing. If the store doesn't sell the the install they may go to some handyman that doesn't know any better himself, and you still end up in similar situation.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Most appliances have instructions for the use of either 3 or 4 wire cords based on the existing receptacle where the appliance is going to be installed. In many cases these appliances are shipped without cords, and the appliance retailer installs one. This is provided for in both the instructions and the listing.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I don't know anything about PC Richards but I have noticed that some of the major retail stores will charge a permit fee for such things as a water heater install and then not get a permit.
I have told these customers that if the store didn't get a permit I would ask for my $200.00 back ( permit fee charge ). As far as I know it is still illegal to charge for something that you don't intend to provide.
As long as the appliance cord is installed correctly I don't see any problem with the store charging for the service but if it's not installed correctly I would advise the customer to demand their money back.
I have told these customers that if the store didn't get a permit I would ask for my $200.00 back ( permit fee charge ). As far as I know it is still illegal to charge for something that you don't intend to provide.
As long as the appliance cord is installed correctly I don't see any problem with the store charging for the service but if it's not installed correctly I would advise the customer to demand their money back.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
If they itemize the item on an invoice and you don't get it, you have something to complain about, if they build the permit cost into other costs you don't have as much to argue about, but chances are you don't know what was all included in that cost either, some of it may be "just in case" and is extra profit if not needed.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I won't mention the name of the store but on the invoice they did itemize the permit fee at $200.00. That's how I know how much extra they charged for the permit. The county would have charged them $50 so the rest would have been for the cost of obtaining the permit. Since they didn't get a permit there was no cost from the county and there was no cost for obtaining the permit. $200 for doing nothing.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
If you are instructed to install a new dryer circuit the nec requires a grounded conductor & equipment ground. Install your standardized 4 wire receptacle & move on. It was nice of you to call the appliance store for info, but you can only install the proper recept required by code whether it is a new installation or using exsiting wiring methods(might be 3 wire). Should not be you responsibility if the appliance repair man shows up with the wrong cord & cap & if he was any good he would have more than 1 choice on his truck. IMO I'd never wasted my time driving down to the store -
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Yet how many clueless customers are taken advantage of?
But if I throw a $5 item and customer don't know what it is on an invoice, it gets questioned:roll: Well maybe not every time, but sometimes.
iceworm
Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
- Location
- North of the 65 parallel
- Occupation
- EE (Field - as little design as possible)
Following is delivered from an industrial grade engineer that avidly persues homeowner DIY projects of any magnitude - often flaunting laws of man and good sense, but never flaunting any known laws of physics.
Yes. It is a cord and plug appliance - not part of premisis wiring. NEC hasn't got anything to do with it. Unless it is on commercial premisis, OSHA hasn't got anything to do with it.
Unless your state has a special regulation funding residential appliance cord police - that likely is not an issue either.
I'm not seeing much else matters.
ice
- Location
- Massachusetts
You know ice for the most part I agree with you and I am enjoying your good humor but now my turn to have some fun. 
I am pretty sure the NFPA and the CMPs feel otherwise.
A random sampling of examples although nothing specifically about dryers.
That said, I am still OK with the appliance guy installing the cord.
I am pretty sure the NFPA and the CMPs feel otherwise.
A random sampling of examples although nothing specifically about dryers.
That said, I am still OK with the appliance guy installing the cord.
- Status