Percentage of occupancy to determine permit fee

[jaylectricity]

The Town of Hull requires a full rewire permit fee for any home where you'll be wiring more than 50% or the home. I was going to ask him how he determines percentage and I'm expecting a disagreement.

What do you guys think? Based on square footage? Number of circuits, devices, etc?

The house is a colonial with a second floor where the pitched part of the roof makes up the most of the ceiling in the two rooms. They ripped off the second floor and made it a full size floor. I'm rewiring that and half of the first floor including the kitchen and a bathroom. Finished basement stays the same.

I feel like I'm right around that 50% and it's the difference between $110 and $235 for the permit.

 

[James L]

I'm just finishing up a job somewhat like that, but was not finished inside the roof line. I Had to demo all the attic wiring which basically amounted to all the first floor lighting. Then floor joists went in and I had to rewire what I took out. Then waited for second floor build and wired that. Service upgraded from 100a to 200a, added weatherproof receps and installed all new first floor fixtures (since they were already removed from demo).

I didn't rewire anything in the basement, or first floor receps.

I would consider it a whole house if it was based on +/- 50%

 

[jaylectricity]

I definitely think my new wiring is going to make up more than 50% of the house, but if there's a way to say that more sq footage was untouched rather than new I wouldn't mind saving the customer the $100. The customer is my cousin, so it's a little self-serving.

 

[James L]

Doesn't the permit office have a set of prints submitted for a construction permit? Wonder if they'd take a peek at the print and assess?

If it were me, I'd think the extra hundred and change is cheap insurance. I wouldn't want an inspector coming out and thinking I tried to get one over on them. It could cost you difficulties later

 

[LEO2854]

The Town of Hull requires a full rewire permit fee for any home where you'll be wiring more than 50% or the home. I was going to ask him how he determines percentage and I'm expecting a disagreement.

What do you guys think? Based on square footage? Number of circuits, devices, etc?

The house is a colonial with a second floor where the pitched part of the roof makes up the most of the ceiling in the two rooms. They ripped off the second floor and made it a full size floor. I'm rewiring that and half of the first floor including the kitchen and a bathroom. Finished basement stays the same.

I feel like I'm right around that 50% and it's the difference between $110 and $235 for the permit.

First you must inform and charge the client this fee!

Framingham is $60 per room---10 rooms = $600 there so you must know about that before you bid the work.

 

[iwire]

The house is a colonial with a second floor where the pitched part of the roof makes up the most of the ceiling in the two rooms. They ripped off the second floor and made it a full size floor. I'm rewiring that and half of the first floor including the kitchen and a bathroom. Finished basement stays the same.

I feel like I'm right around that 50% and it's the difference between $110 and $235 for the permit.

Essentially three floors, you are rewiring one floor entirely and half of another.

Yeah I see about 50% but I think you can bet which side Hull will see it.

 

[69gp]

The Town of Hull requires a full rewire permit fee for any home where you'll be wiring more than 50% or the home. I was going to ask him how he determines percentage and I'm expecting a disagreement.

What do you guys think? Based on square footage? Number of circuits, devices, etc?

The house is a colonial with a second floor where the pitched part of the roof makes up the most of the ceiling in the two rooms. They ripped off the second floor and made it a full size floor. I'm rewiring that and half of the first floor including the kitchen and a bathroom. Finished basement stays the same.

I feel like I'm right around that 50% and it's the difference between $110 and $235 for the permit.

This is how I have handled permits that are questionable on the fees. Most of the small towns in MA when you pull a permit in person its most likely a secretary that handles the paperwork. If you feel the fee is not correct explain that to her and pay what you feel is the correct fee. Tell her that after the inspector makes his first inspection he could determine what the correct fee should be. I have never had a permit refused to be accepted when paying in this fashion. I have done this a few times and nobody has even asked for the balance. (saved me a few thousand).

Another option would be to fill the permit in for all the work you are going to do and then mail the permit into the building department with the lower fee that you feel is correct. Most likely the permit will be accepted.

I wish the fees in MA were set by the state so that wherever you would be working the fee would be the same. I have paid over $20,000 for some permits only to have an inspector on the job a half a dozen times and then paid a couple hundred dollars to have an inspector onsite for everyday for 2 weeks straight.

 

[jaylectricity]

Doesn't the permit office have a set of prints submitted for a construction permit? Wonder if they'd take a peek at the print and assess?

If it were me, I'd think the extra hundred and change is cheap insurance. I wouldn't want an inspector coming out and thinking I tried to get one over on them. It could cost you difficulties later

I know the inspector well enough. In this situation I paid the lower fee, but he said it should be the higher fee.

First you must inform and charge the client this fee!

Framingham is $60 per room---10 rooms = $600 there so you must know about that before you bid the work.

Client pays the fee regardless, yes.

I wish the fees in MA were set by the state so that wherever you would be working the fee would be the same. I have paid over $20,000 for some permits only to have an inspector on the job a half a dozen times and then paid a couple hundred dollars to have an inspector onsite for everyday for 2 weeks straight.

It can get crazy. Hull charges per inspection, basically. A full house permit gets you six inspections, which is nice when you need a perimeter rough or an extra look at the service. Other towns like Lexington go by the price of the job. That can get extra wonky...if the client is picking up all the supplies and you're doing a day or two of rough and a day of trim, it can be under $1000 which would be a $30 permit. Or you can be supplying the generator and transfer switch and doing three hours of work and it will come in at $60.

 

[kwired]

I know the inspector well enough. In this situation I paid the lower fee, but he said it should be the higher fee.




Client pays the fee regardless, yes.



It can get crazy. Hull charges per inspection, basically. A full house permit gets you six inspections, which is nice when you need a perimeter rough or an extra look at the service. Other towns like Lexington go by the price of the job. That can get extra wonky...if the client is picking up all the supplies and you're doing a day or two of rough and a day of trim, it can be under $1000 which would be a $30 permit. Or you can be supplying the generator and transfer switch and doing three hours of work and it will come in at $60.

size of structure or finished value IMO is an unfair way of setting permit fees. I understand it is difficult to set fees fairly but it seems to me a per (new or modified) branch circuit fee seems about the fairest. You can get a $10,000 project that takes the inspector up to half the day to inspect, then he can go to the next project that is valued over $1,000,000 but inspection is done in under an hour because there just is not as much to look at. Maybe is a huge pumping station with limited circuits but expensive equipment or something along those lines. IMO fees should be based as much as possible on what resources it takes for the AHJ to administer their portion of the process, not the physical size of the structure or the value of it.

Half the house vs a room or two? Again not fair. One room could easily be over half the square footage of the entire structure, yet if it is a large recreation room or maybe a room with a pool or something like that - it is a lot of space but maybe doesn't really have that much wiring to inspect compared to a smaller space that maybe has a lot of wiring. Remodeling a kitchen could easily involve more for the inspector to have to look at.