Permanent Outlets

lunalilo

Member
Hi,

I am a Cable installer for Oceanic TWC. I was wondering if there is terminology to describe permanently installed wiring (in the wall) versus wiring that the customer can access (extension cord from home depot for example).

I was also wondering does the Nec say anything about installing a 'permanent line' that goes from our demarcation nid (where all the home runs come from) straight to a TV without a box or barrel or any other splicing?

Versus a line that goes from the nid to a wall plate where a customer can disconnect at...
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Hi,

I am a Cable installer for Oceanic TWC. I was wondering if there is terminology to describe permanently installed wiring (in the wall) versus wiring that the customer can access (extension cord from home depot for example).
Yes... but this is too general of a question to give any specific answer.

I was also wondering does the Nec say anything about installing a 'permanent line' that goes from our demarcation nid (where all the home runs come from) straight to a TV without a box or barrel or any other splicing?

Versus a line that goes from the nid to a wall plate where a customer can disconnect at...
While a bit more specific, still too general for any specifics. This type of installation is covered by Articles 820 and/or 830. Table 820.154(a) is an entire page devoted to applications of listed coax in buildings.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
The NEC does not say much about terminology such as home runs, pigtails etc. The cable run from demarc to outlet I would call a home run and the run from the wall jack to the TV I would call a cable jumper or tail.

The NEC does not address wiring run with extension cords. Tell the customer they need an outlet or receptacle installed in the wall etc.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Not sure what you are asking either but from what I can understand I can say that the NEC has very little to say about how CATV wiring is run. The only things it stipulates is where you install the ground block and how it is to be grounded and the type of cable you can run within walls and floor to floor.

Actually the latter has been a "bone of contention" of mine for quite some time. The NEC requires that concealed coax, like all LV wiring, be listed. All listed cables are required to have the listing information printed on the jacket as well as the reel or box label. For some reason, which I cannot understand, you won't find anything printed on the jacket or reel/box of CATV coax except maybe the manufacturer's name and product number. You can check the manufacturer's literature and find cable that is listed CM,CMX and CMR but it's never printed on the jacket as required by the NEC. You have to special order cable with the listing printed on it. So most concealed wiring is done with non code compliant cable which should be an automatic red-tag if the inspector is on his toes.

-Hal
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
Belden prints all of that stuff (footages too) on at least their 9116 cable, and I would imagine they so so with other cables of theirs. I wish other manufacturers did as well.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Right. Belden is one of the few and I don't know of any cable company that uses Belden. It's usually CommScope and their stock cables say nothing on them.

And I should correct what I said above about listings. CATV cables are listed as CATV, CATVX, CATVR and CATVP not necessarily CM, CMX, CMR or CMP unless dual listed.

-Hal
 

lunalilo

Member
Sorry about that, I guess I should have been a little bit more clear.

I guess I was asking if every new installed "outlet" must have physical outlet in the walls?

For instance I don't think it would be wise for anyone to get an extension cord and stick it into a breaker in the breaker panel and the other end is just a female plug. Technically all the wiring would be connected correctly, but that's the closest analogy I could think of to be honest.


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lunalilo

Member
Never heard of Belden by the way, we all use Commscope for everything. and Antronix.


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GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
I do not see anything in the NEC which would prevent or even discourage running a cable out of a hole in the wall or floor and attaching an F connector to it. But terminating it at a wall plate with a female connector sticking out is neater looking and does not get caught in the vacuum cleaner when left unused.
The only possible code reference I can think of would be if some sort of clamping function is needed for where the cable comes through the wall. But I do not find that.

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mjf

Senior Member
Sorry about that, I guess I should have been a little bit more clear.

I guess I was asking if every new installed "outlet" must have physical outlet in the walls?

For instance I don't think it would be wise for anyone to get an extension cord and stick it into a breaker in the breaker panel and the other end is just a female plug. Technically all the wiring would be connected correctly, but that's the closest analogy I could think of to be honest.


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Around here, most installers that work for cable companies are sub-contracted and get paid by the job. They do not cut-in LV boxes, they just screw wallplates to the finish of the wall. Speed is ALL that counts.
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
lunalilo

One thing that you should understand in your profession is where to bond your equipment. This is from an inspection I did this week.
That is the gas line you see. Also a plumber replaced the copper with CPVC and probably move this from the water line to the gas line.

The first is the gas line. The second was the GEC and bond to the cold water line disconnected. Was installed in the old days near the panel and not within 5' of the electrode entering the structure.

Its metal isn't?

glbonding.jpgdiscogrgec.jpg
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
Never heard of Belden by the way, we all use Commscope for everything. and Antronix.
Belden has been making cables probably longer than anyone, but, like Hal, I've never seen any used by CATV companies. Personally, I've always preferred TimesFiber, then CommScope in that order.

Antronix makes some very good stuff. I'm assuming that it's both their passives and drop amps you use.

Just out of curiosity, what fittings do you use?
 

lunalilo

Member
Belden has been making cables probably longer than anyone, but, like Hal, I've never seen any used by CATV companies. Personally, I've always preferred TimesFiber, then CommScope in that order.

Antronix makes some very good stuff. I'm assuming that it's both their passives and drop amps you use.

Just out of curiosity, what fittings do you use?
We use PPC fittings, http://www.ppc-online.com/broadband/family.php?id=27 "signaltite" which is our alternative.

We also use as our primary http://www.pctstore.com/F_connectors_RG6_F_connector_PCTTRS6L_p/pcttrs6l.htm

For speed the PPC is great, slips right on! For Heavy Duty to PCT is awesome even has a little o-ring inside for extra security.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
We use PPC fittings, http://www.ppc-online.com/broadband/family.php?id=27 "signaltite" which is our alternative.

We also use as our primary http://www.pctstore.com/F_connectors_RG6_F_connector_PCTTRS6L_p/pcttrs6l.htm

For speed the PPC is great, slips right on! For Heavy Duty to PCT is awesome even has a little o-ring inside for extra security.
I understand you were likely referring only to coax, but PPC is a Belden brand...
Never heard of Belden by the way, we all use Commscope for everything. and Antronix.
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
I understand you were likely referring only to coax, but PPC is a Belden brand...
Yes, as of a little over a year ago.

PPC was the first manufacturer to develop the compression fitting. About 9 or 10 years ago, they took just about every other manufacturer to court (successfully) for patent infringement.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Hi,

I am a Cable installer for Oceanic TWC. I was wondering if there is terminology to describe permanently installed wiring (in the wall) versus wiring that the customer can access (extension cord from home depot for example).

I was also wondering does the Nec say anything about installing a 'permanent line' that goes from our demarcation nid (where all the home runs come from) straight to a TV without a box or barrel or any other splicing?

Versus a line that goes from the nid to a wall plate where a customer can disconnect at...
Not necessarily an exclusively used term but the words "premises wiring" are often used when talking about the permanently installed wiring within a building.
 

lunalilo

Member
Thank you. I guess I was fishing for an answer I thought I once learned... But probably never did... Yep I'm one of those guys! Yikes. Thanks!


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