Permanently installed Pool vs. Storable Pool

don_resqcapt19 said:
This would be a rare installation for either type of pool. However if you have a permanently installed pool with the water level 2' or less above the surrounding surface 680.26(B)(2) applies.
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(2) Perimeter Surfaces.
The perimeter surface to be bonded shall be considered to extend for 900 mm (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool while also at a height between 900 mm (3 ft) above and 600 mm (2 ft) below the maximum water level. The perimeter surface shall include unpaved surfaces, concrete, and other types of paving....
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Where did you get that from. I am not seeing the bold part in 2017, 2020 or 2023. At least not in 680.26(B)(2)
NoahsArc said:
But it's backwards - the further the distance the more safety is required...
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I think you maybe are thinking about it backwards? Bold part above wherever it came from means the perimeter surface that needs bonded is within 3 feet horizontally from inside pool wall and any surface less than three feet above the max water level or less than two feet below max water level.

If you have a 42 inch high wall on a freestanding pool it is more than 2 feet to the ground from max water level unless you place some other surface alongside the pool like a deck. In that case it is a longer reach for a pool user between the two points. IMO is more of a danger if you are inside the pool and reaching out to some other surface not at same potential than if standing outside the pool and reaching in. But with a 42 inch high side wall it would be difficult for most people to reach the ground while standing in the pool. Being able to reach two feet below the max water level on the outside of the pool seems pretty likely for most people that are over age ~12 anyway.
 
kwired said:
Where did you get that from. I am not seeing the bold part in 2017, 2020 or 2023. At least not in 680.26(B)(2)

I think you maybe are thinking about it backwards? Bold part above wherever it came from means the perimeter surface that needs bonded is within 3 feet horizontally from inside pool wall and any surface less than three feet above the max water level or less than two feet below max water level.

If you have a 42 inch high wall on a freestanding pool it is more than 2 feet to the ground from max water level unless you place some other surface alongside the pool like a deck. In that case it is a longer reach for a pool user between the two points. IMO is more of a danger if you are inside the pool and reaching out to some other surface not at same potential than if standing outside the pool and reaching in. But with a 42 inch high side wall it would be difficult for most people to reach the ground while standing in the pool. Being able to reach two feet below the max water level on the outside of the pool seems pretty likely for most people that are over age ~12 anyway.
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2020 does not have the bolded part, it's what I'm working off of, so there is no vertical qualification, you just lay a copper ring around any pool >42" deep. Is this 2023?
 
Rjryan said:
Article 680, Part 1. General, 680.1 Scope 2023 NEC HANDBOOK
“ The installations covered by this article can be indoor or outdoors, permanent or storable. “
Article 680.26 (A) “ The equipotential bonding required by 680.26 (B) and (C) to reduce voltage gradients in the pool area shall be installed for pools with or without associated electrical equipment related to the pool. “
Article 680.26 (B)(2)(a), 680.26 (B)(2)(b) and 680.26 (B)(2)(c) would be your equipotential bonding options.
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I am wrong (missed the definition of storable pool). Article. 680 Part III 2023 NEC Handbook “ Pools, spas and hot tubes with inflatable or molded polymeric wall are considered storable. Other storable units are those that can be readily disassembled and are limited to a maximum water depth of 42 inches. “ “ A storable pool, its associated equipment, and perimeter do not require equipotential bonding required as specified in 680.26. “
 
kwired said:
Where did you get that from. I am not seeing the bold part in 2017, 2020 or 2023. At least not in 680.26(B)(2)

I think you maybe are thinking about it backwards? Bold part above wherever it came from means the perimeter surface that needs bonded is within 3 feet horizontally from inside pool wall and any surface less than three feet above the max water level or less than two feet below max water level.

If you have a 42 inch high wall on a freestanding pool it is more than 2 feet to the ground from max water level unless you place some other surface alongside the pool like a deck. In that case it is a longer reach for a pool user between the two points. IMO is more of a danger if you are inside the pool and reaching out to some other surface not at same potential than if standing outside the pool and reaching in. But with a 42 inch high side wall it would be difficult for most people to reach the ground while standing in the pool. Being able to reach two feet below the max water level on the outside of the pool seems pretty likely for most people that are over age ~12 anyway.
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I am using Link and that is from TIA 23-9. When I first posted I did not look at the "T" in a highlighted circle in from of 680.26(B)(2).
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I am using Link and that is from TIA 23-9. When I first posted I did not look at the "T" in a highlighted circle in from of 680.26(B)(2).
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I just went to the TIA's on NFPA site and seen the TIA that has what you posted in it. This likely means that will be the language used in 2016 unless they decided to make further changes to what is in the TIA. Enforcement of 2023 would depend on if the AHJ adopts the TIA I guess. I did notice 2017 through 2023 seem to be all about the same otherwise.
 
kwired said:
I just went to the TIA's on NFPA site and seen the TIA that has what you posted in it. This likely means that will be the language used in 2016 unless they decided to make further changes to what is in the TIA. Enforcement of 2023 would depend on if the AHJ adopts the TIA I guess. I did notice 2017 through 2023 seem to be all about the same otherwise.
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The second draft shows that the 2' below in the TIA will be replaced by 3' below in the 2026.
 
It's good to know that there is no shock hazard from the water to the ground so long as it is an arbitrary number of feet between them :unsure:

Can anyone explain the logic behind this one?
 
NoahsArc said:
It's good to know that there is no shock hazard from the water to the ground so long as it is an arbitrary number of feet between them :unsure:

Can anyone explain the logic behind this one?
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I thought I did. Though it is not any official NFPA explanation basic electricity concepts kind of says it comes down to the average person isn't long enough to contact both points at the same time, especially while inside the pool which is when you are the most vulnerable to any voltage potential. You will have much lower resistance connection to the pool water when you are mostly immersed in said water. If you are outside or even happen to be climbing out of the pool, by the time you can reach beyond that arbitrary number of feet away, you are not in as intimate of contact with the water anymore.
 
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