Permit pulled under an older code cycle

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Minuteman

Minuteman

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The Sooner Nation
I pulled a permit back in 2005. The AHJ was using the 1999 code cycle then and is now in the 2002. (They plan to skip the '05 and jump right to the '08 pretty soon)

The permit was for a remodel of an old farm house. The guy who bought it did a demo down to the studs and tore off the roof, and added a complete second floor. Makes the place about 3000 ft/2 and total electric. We relocated the service and upgraded it to two 200 amp panels. The old service was still on and was used for temp power, so we landed all the conductors on their respective breakers. We passed the rough and new service inspection in November of 2005.

A few weeks ago, the HO called me and said that he had had financial troubles, but that the project was sheet rocked and painted, and was hoping that we could final the job. Except that the old service was still being used as temporary. I called the same inspector, and he re-released the cut over with poco, with out even coming out again.

Finished everything up last week and called for final. Same inspector came out and failed the following with these comments that I pulled today off their web site:

EMERGENCY LIGHT NEEDED OVER PANELS.......30 AMP IS MAX FOR # 10 WIRE.......40 AMP MAX FOR #8 WIRE.....ID WHITE WIRES USED AS PHASE CONDUCTORS W/ PROPER COLOR.....CHECK FOR PROPER SIZE BREAKERS FOR A/C UNITS.....AFCI PROTECTIONREQED FOR BEDROOM CIRCUITS
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The part about the 30 amp for #10 and 40 amp for #8 is in regards to the to the three A/C units, as is the proper breaker part. I checked them myself, and 240.4 (D) & (G) are worded pretty much the same in the '99. Also, Arc faults were not in the '99so I don't get it.

If a permit is pulled and inspected under one cycle, and finaled under another cycle, which code cycle is enforced?
 
Is the permit still valid after all this time?

In any event, the code that applies is the code that was in force when teh permit was pulled. That's why you generally see a swarm of permits pulled right before a new code is due to take effect. The inspector probably just missed the fact you were working under an old permit.
 
mdshunk said:
Is the permit still valid after all this time?

In any event, the code that applies is the code that was in force when the permit was pulled. That's why you generally see a swarm of permits pulled right before a new code is due to take effect. The inspector probably just missed the fact you were working under an old permit.
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Yes, permits do not expire in this jurisdiction. I guess I thought that it was obvious since the permit number is E2005XXXXX
 
Minuteman said:
If a permit is pulled and inspected under one cycle, and finaled under another cycle, which code cycle is enforced?
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Well, it's not a project on the fast track, that's for sure. But interesting.

Can't believe that a permit would be open for that long. I would think that the original permitted work should have been inspected for the code cycle it was under.

...as for right now, are the corrections that major?

forgive me if I misread. :smile:
 
frizbeedog said:
Well, it's not a project on the fast track, that's for sure. But interesting.
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That actually happens quite a bit in my experience. Rookie "flippers" that run into cash flow problems. Homeowners acting as general contractors who can't manage decisions and subs take forever too. I've been working on the same restaurant that has been under construction here and there for 4 or 5 years now.
 
mdshunk said:
That actually happens quite a bit in my experience. Rookie "flippers" that run into cash flow problems. Homeowners acting as general contractors who can't manage decisions and subs take forever too. I've been working on the same restaurant that has been under construction here and there for 4 or 5 years now.
Click to expand...

Must be hard to stay motivated as a contractor, I would think, under those circumstances.

Hope the food will be good. :smile:
 
Which code cycle?

Which code cycle?

I'm with Mark 100%. Permit issue should carry the day as long as it stayed valid.

In another similar example, I was the lead Fire Code inspector on a commercial renovation/addition job (17,000 sq. ft) that had the approval to start just AFTER the last code cycle ended, due to "delays". Because the entire project had been designed and reviewed under the previous cycle, and the plan was to issue the permit before the new cycle started, it was agreed by all parties, with the concurrance of the State AHJ, that the inspections for all building and fire codes would be done to the code that already ended.

Otherwise to do it right we would have had to make the Architect ammend the entire construction document package and then review the whole thing all over in the new code. (I was still more comfortable in the old book anyway!)

Mike
 
frizbeedog said:
Must be hard to stay motivated as a contractor, I would think, under those circumstances.
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No, not at all. I'm not even sure I can explain how many jobs I have hanging out there, in progress. I'm certain it's several dozen. Actually, I appreciate a few projects that are proceeding slowly due to no fault of my own. They make for great fill-in work. I'd further say that a guy needs a few projects like that. It is kinda a funny experience when you get a call for a finish that you only very vaguely even remember doing the ruff.
 
mdshunk said:
That actually happens quite a bit in my experience. Rookie "flippers" that run into cash flow problems. Homeowners acting as general contractors who can't manage decisions and subs take forever too. I've been working on the same restaurant that has been under construction here and there for 4 or 5 years now.
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Your a sub, What's Mr. Mdshunk Do ? This is it or I walk, Service and walk, Just walk....
I couldn't even tell who was on first, gezz did you just get paid ?
Gezz, what a night mare ...
Granted the fixes seems margin at best, still running on Construction power, I bet they could help you out, ID'n the Services
 
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cadpoint said:
Your a sub, What's Mr. Mdshunk Do ? This is it or I walk, Service and walk, Just walk....
I couldn't even tell who was on first, gezz did you just get paid ?
Gezz, what a night mare ...
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I have no idea what you just said there, but I'm sure it was profound. :smile:
 
mdshunk said:
No, not at all. I'm not even sure I can explain how many jobs I have hanging out there, in progress. I'm certain it's several dozen. Actually, I appreciate a few projects that are proceeding slowly due to no fault of my own. They make for great fill-in work. I'd further say that a guy needs a few projects like that. It is kinda a funny experience when you get a call for a finish that you only very vaguely even remember doing the ruff.
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OK .:smile:
 
cadpoint said:
Your a sub, What's Mr. Mdshunk Do ? This is it or I walk, Service and walk, Just walk....
I couldn't even tell who was on first, gezz did you just get paid ?
Gezz, what a night mare ...
Granted the fixes seems margin at best, still running on Construction power, I bet they could help you out, ID'n the Services
Click to expand...

:-? .
 
Minuteman said:
Depends on how well I can convince him about 240.4 (D) & (G) :-?
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I see the 30 amps for 10 in 2008. Other than special circumstances, how is that different than before? Copper?

Where is the #8 at 40 ocpd?

Not debating just curious, or tired, not sure which.

Not sure you specified the conditions of the circuits involved.
 
frizbeedog said:
I see the 30 amps for 10 in 2008. Other than special circumstances, how is that different than before? Copper?

Where is the #8 at 40 ocpd?

Not debating just curious, or tired, not sure which.

Not sure you specified the conditions of the circuits involved.
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Disregard all of the above. Damn the ten minuite limit!

Read OP again, and determined that I am in fact a bonehead.

Goodnight. :smile:
 
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