Permit question

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Vinniem

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Central Jersey
I was just wondering how many of us start a job without officially reciveing the electrical permit.

I know your not supposed to in the state of NJ, but I've been falling into this practice lately.

Am I alone?
 
Vinniem said:
I was just wondering how many of us start a job without officially reciveing the electrical permit.

I know your not supposed to in the state of NJ, but I've been falling into this practice lately.

Am I alone?
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Alone?
Of course not.

Will the permit police shut the job down?
Possibly....however you could envoke the "emergency" defense allowing yourself 3 days to file that permit...I can't seem to locate the link to support this last statement ~ but I do know it exists. (might have even beed taped to the wall in the permit office/s?)

Now, if your a good EC that pulls the permits as required...I seriously doubt anyone will bust your chops ...but it might happen if you are not working your typical area/s and are not familiar with the AHJ.
 
In Delaware, we don't need no stinkin' permits :D

Just do the job, and then file for inspection with your favorite inspection agency. Got 4 or 5 to choose from.:roll:

In MD, each county is different. Some counties operate the same as Delaware. Others require permits. Of those, some have their own inspectors, while others allow you to use your favorite inspection agency.:cool:

Same goes for Virginia. In my area of VA, no permits are needed, same as Delaware. Just do the job, and file for inspection with the inspection agency.:)

Other areas in VA are not as contractor-friendly. Your mileage may vary. :grin:
 
kbsparky said:
In Delaware, we don't need no stinkin' permits :D

Just do the job, and then file for inspection with your favorite inspection agency. Got 4 or 5 to choose from.:roll:

In MD, each county is different. Some counties operate the same as Delaware. Others require permits. Of those, some have their own inspectors, while others allow you to use your favorite inspection agency.:cool:

Same goes for Virginia. In my area of VA, no permits are needed, same as Delaware. Just do the job, and file for inspection with the inspection agency.:)

Other areas in VA are not as contractor-friendly. Your mileage may vary. :grin:
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Thats CRAZY talk! :grin:
 
You should see the list of licenses and fees I have to pay for all this crazy talk!! :mad:

I have so many stinkin' wallet cards that I had to resort to photocopying them all on a couple of sheets of paper, and put `em in a see-thru folder, to be available for whomever wants to verify my credentials.

Made the wallet too fat keepin' them in there...:rolleyes:
 
wallet

wallet

well...my life is finally complete !!!!!!!!

I finally had one contractor admit to having a FAT WALLET :)


In many years of inspecting, I have rarely seen anyone get their chops busted for "starting". The few times it has been, as celtic stated, a contractor new to the area where the insepector felt he mikght have been trying to avoid permits altogether.
 
augie47 said:
well...my life is finally complete !!!!!!!!

I finally had one contractor admit to having a FAT WALLET :)....
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Too bad the lard was all wallet cards required by all the different jurisdictions. Left no room for the important stuff, like green.

 Now if I could have just kept the Ca$h Value of all them cards in my wallet instead of blowing it all on all those license fees, I would have a real fat wallet indeed!! :grin:
 
Getting back on topic, I've never been busted for working without a permit. Around here, even in areas that require them, the permit itself is more of a revenue generating device than a code compliance pre-requisite.

Even on large jobs, a typical permit application might read ".... 400 Amp service, complete wiring..."
 
Here is Idaho in the municipality I work for our city ordinance requires that a permit be purchased before the work begins. If you purchase the permit the same day you call for an inspection, you will probably be okay. However, if you start a job and you are caught working without a permit, you will be paying a double fee when you come in to purchase that permit.
 
KBSparky, do you do any work this side of the bay?
The big thing around here, permit wise is if you are doing "low-volt" work. Too many companies were coming in after the rough-in electrical inspection to avoid getting a permit. AHJs were busting chops big-time for years. Some jurisdictions still want to see alarm, intercom, audio, etc. permits posted in the window when doing the inspection.
 
I try to avoid crossing that danged Bridge. While I have at lease one active license on the western shore, I don't get over there for work too often.

I almost took a job in downtown Balto a few years ago, but backed out of the deal once we leaned we would have to hire someone just to stand out on the sidewalk and keep an eye on the truck while we were inside working. :mad:
 
In Washington State, ECs can request permits on-line, and print them on their own computer. I don't know the consequences of not having it on-site when an Inspector comes a callin'.
 
Here on Delmarva, in several counties, I can obtain permits simply by sending an email to the permit office.

They offer pre-paid escrow accounts, and email the permit number back right away, and then mail the hard copy to the office. Or, I can call it in over the phone, or FAX the request.

Only one county that I frequently work in requires the permit to be posted on site. The rest just process the paperwork -- as I stated it is a revenue generating procedure.:rolleyes:

Different story for building permits, however.:-?
 
kbsparky said:
Getting back on topic, I've never been busted for working without a permit. Around here, even in areas that require them, the permit itself is more of a revenue generating device than a code compliance pre-requisite.

Even on large jobs, a typical permit application might read ".... 400 Amp service, complete wiring..."
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"the permit itself is more of a revenue generating device than a code compliance pre-requisite."

Intresting that your area generates revenue from permits, our state has to kick in money just to keep some municipal inspection services going, the law here does not allow permits to generate income. It usually cost most communities more then they take in from permit fees, to run an inspection department.

The main reason for inspections, is to assure a safe job, and keep your insurance whole, it assures the underwriting company, work has been completed to current codes.

Every insurance underwriter rates cities for insurance rates, they look at your fire services, code enforcement, and much more, then assign a rate. If your city is lacking any of these services your insurance rates will be higher.
 
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barbeer said:
Fl building code says you may start so long as you do not complete work past the first required inspection.
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I don't have a problem starting here either. As long as the app. is in the city, demo starts tomorrow.
 
satcom said:
"the permit itself is more of a revenue generating device than a code compliance pre-requisite."

Intresting that your area generates revenue from permits, our state has to kick in money just to keep some municipal inspection services going, the law here does not allow permits to generate income. It usually cost most communities more then they take in from permit fees, to run an inspection department.
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You are confusing permits with inspections. The revenue generated from issuing permits pays for the clerks to handle the paperwork.

Permits are only issued to licensed electricians (or homeowners wiring their own home in some cases).

In jurisdictions where no permits are issued or needed, this level of bureaucracy is absent, thus reducing overall costs and headaches to the contractor and the consumer.

Inspections are handled by licensed inspection agencies who verify the license number and permit where applicable.

An interesting thing here is that the inspection agencies are able to operate at a profit from the collection of inspection fees. When a city or county wants to do their own inspections (read: CONTROL the industry) the efficiency goes down to the point where permit costs become burdensome, or taxpayers have to subsidize their operation.

The main reason for inspections, is to assure a safe job, and keep your insurance whole, it assures the underwriting company, work has been completed to current codes.

Every insurance underwriter rates cities for insurance rates, they look at your fire services, code enforcement, and much more, then assign a rate. If your city is lacking any of these services your insurance rates will be higher.
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No argument about the need for inspections. We have to deal with those, but in these parts this is a separate activity from the issuance of the permits.:smile:
 
kbsparky said:
Inspections are handled by licensed inspection agencies who verify the license number and permit where applicable.

An interesting thing here is that the inspection agencies are able to operate at a profit from the collection of inspection fees. When a city or county wants to do their own inspections (read: CONTROL the industry) the efficiency goes down to the point where permit costs become burdensome, or taxpayers have to subsidize their operation.
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Maybe in your neck of the woods, but here in Richmond and surrounding counties, Henrico, Hanover, Checterfield, etc., permit fees cover it all, including inspections, all of which are done by city/county employees.
 
kbsparky said:
You are confusing permits with inspections. The revenue generated from issuing permits pays for the clerks to handle the paperwork.

Permits are only issued to licensed electricians (or homeowners wiring their own home in some cases).

In jurisdictions where no permits are issued or needed, this level of bureaucracy is absent, thus reducing overall costs and headaches to the contractor and the consumer.

Inspections are handled by licensed inspection agencies who verify the license number and permit where applicable.

An interesting thing here is that the inspection agencies are able to operate at a profit from the collection of inspection fees. When a city or county wants to do their own inspections (read: CONTROL the industry) the efficiency goes down to the point where permit costs become burdensome, or taxpayers have to subsidize their operation.

No argument about the need for inspections. We have to deal with those, but in these parts this is a separate activity from the issuance of the permits.:smile:
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As I said intresting, we have a few towns that permits are cheaper, where they use private inspection agencies, something like you have there.

Go figure a private agency can do it cheaper then a goverment sector, what a supprise.
 
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