Permit Required? / Massachusetts

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shortcircuit2

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Is a permit required for small repairs or appliance reconnections in Massachusetts?

Examples:
1) Service call to replace a dimmer switch.
2) Service call to replace a light fixture.
3) Service call to reconnect new dishwasher.
4) Service call to reconnect electric hot water heater.
5) Service call to replace 12 hard wired smoke detectors.

These are just a few examples of repairs to existing installations. Part of Chapter 143, Section 3L of the Massachusetts General Law reads like this...

"No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed..."

shortcircuit2
 
I think "Technically" any think you do is suppose to be inspected but it's just not followed when it comes to the things you mentioned. That would consume too much time for the inspectors who have bigger jobs too worry about, but thats just what I've come to understand.
 
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Most inspectors I deal with tell me that they consider replacing fixtures, devices, etc. to be "minor repair work" that by statute does not require a permit or inspection. I've pulled permits for some pretty small jobs, and I have yet to have anyone from any AHJ tell me to stop doing that, most likely because they make money from the permit fees.

Of course, I'm sure there are differences between the rules in Massachusetts and the rules here. When in doubt, pull the permit. I don't see how you could get in trouble for pulling a permit when one is not needed, but I know of people who got in trouble when the situation was reversed.
 
shortcircuit2 said:
Is a permit required for small repairs
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shortcircuit2 said:
4) Service call to reconnect electric hot water heater.

shortcircuit2
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This would require a very special premit. After heating ?HOT? water we would have steam and I would think that this would get into a high pressure vessel type of inspection.
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I just had to jump on the ?HOT? water heater wording although I knew that you didn?t mean to say that. I understand that you were talking about a plain old water heater.

Here in NC a premit is required for everything but light bulbs and fuses
 
Yes, a permit is required for all of the actions you described.

Remember MGL 143 was written many years ago, and in some aspects written very poorly. They are attempting to rewrite it, but with the dirrerent interst groups, it is not getting anywhere quickly.

If you read the definition in MA of a Journeynman vs. a Master, it is apparant that it was not intended that a Journeyman be allowed to run a business and obtain a permit. But the wording of the entire section does permit a J-man to work and hire one unlicensed empoloyee.

John
 
dlhoule said:
Yes, but what percentage of OPs jobs are they actually pulled for?
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Look at page 16 of this link and you can see that the changing of AC units and appliances with out permit will bring the Licensing Board down hard.
This is the last Newsletter posted on their site.
http://www.ncbeec.org/forms/December2005Newsletter.pdf

I have gotten some pretty funny looks from some of the departments when I ask for a permit for a small job but I have never been refused a permit.
I have lost jobs because I included the price of a permit in the bid to change out a receptacle but it is the law therefore I abide.
 
Yes, a permit required in Ma. for all that you mentioned.
That same language is what in part , also allows the homeowner to do electrical work.
If your not doing electrical work for hire , no notice required.
 
Mike, I commend you for doing what is right and proper. I am glad that at least some action is being taken against some who are not following rules and regulations. However, you did not actually answer my question. For every 1000 jobs of OPs mention; how many permits are pulled. Is it 998 or a larger number or perhaps a smaller number?
 
Thanks for the replies. The wording is terrible and needs to be changed. The part that says:

"install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures"

Is the part that that confuses the situation for me...

Sure I'm getting paid to replace that dimmer...but I not installing any electrical wiring or fixtures...???

If thats the case then permits should be filed for installing light bulbs...Right? What if a 100watt bulb were installed in a fixture rated for 60watts...an inspection might reveal the hazard.


OK, and if I do the work for my buddy and don't charge him...then its not for HIRE and no permit required...

The law needs to be rewritten...

shortcircuit2
 
Shortcircuit2,

I agree with you on all counts. The law is in the process of being rewritten. Should be finalized in a decade or two.
 
dlhoule said:
Mike, I commend you for doing what is right and proper. I am glad that at least some action is being taken against some who are not following rules and regulations. However, you did not actually answer my question. For every 1000 jobs of OPs mention; how many permits are pulled. Is it 998 or a larger number or perhaps a smaller number?
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This would be an impossible question to answer as there is no way to document those who don?t get a permit other than those who are caught.

I do know that the fine has risen for those caught and that the second time could lead to jail time here in North Carolina.
There is a big push to start cracking down on the non licensed and non permitted jobs. I support this push to its fullest.
I think that every person who has completed the requirements to become a licensed electrical contractor should do every thing in his/her power to see that everyone abides to the letter of the law.
 
I'll bet if the consequences are jail time, the number of jobs performed without a permit or license will decrease dramatically.

I know a ton of jobs are done in MA without permits. Many by people I know.
 
jwelectric said:
This would be an impossible question to answer as there is no way to document those who don?t get a permit other than those who are caught.

I do know that the fine has risen for those caught and that the second time could lead to jail time here in North Carolina.
There is a big push to start cracking down on the non licensed and non permitted jobs. I support this push to its fullest.
I think that every person who has completed the requirements to become a licensed electrical contractor should do every thing in his/her power to see that everyone abides to the letter of the law.
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I think NC is on a much better track than we are. Please keep us informed on how things are going and if you will give us a link on their recent disciplinary action when the next one comes out.

I have to agree with what I bolded. I would go on to say that it should be anyone involved in the electrical trade.
 
I'm licensed in vt and ma, I did a job over there this week, a guy called that had a limb pull down his service , the power co hooked it back up but said he needed a new weatherhead, I cut the service, replaced the wh and respliced the service, I didn't think this would require a permit but I guess it did. I don't do too much over there but I guess I should start filing a permit for stuff before I get booted out of the state.
 
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