Phone Land Lines

[ATSman]

In CA AT&T has applied to the CAPUC to be allowed to do away with land lines (twisted pair/ copper) for voice service. It is getting strong opposition from people without smart phones (older people?) and people in the rural areas prone to power outages or cell tower failures. Before I got fiber installed to my house I was used to measuring 48VDC on the copper wires to my land phone. Now with fiber the land line is plugged into the fiber modem. If I unplug the LL to the modem, I loose the dial tone on the land phone. So in a power outage, I loose power to the modem and also the land phone. Has anyone else discovered this and maybe has a simple solution? So it appears that once the fiber was installed, the 48VDC was shut off (by AT&T) on the LL and now it is generated (fake signal) by the modem when the land phone is used. Has anyone else discovered this?
I could always hook up an inverter to power the modem in an outage as a worst case scenario.
This was also posted in Campfire Chat before I read Rogers comment.

 

[augie47]

I confess I am one of those "older people" who takes some comfort in the AT&T land line.
I don't recall it ever being "out" unlike our internet/modem ad it is not too unusual for us to loose cell phone service (or form those lines to be jammed).

 

[cabledawg]

Its the phone companies way to get dialtone off the Old, Ancient, and Future Abandoned cable and "On the new technology". For Power outages, your at their mercy, I dont recall if their end is on a "Backup generator" setup, but it does give you comfort to have a "Backup System" on your end, knowing your family can go on without the inconvenience of a power failure. Hope this helps

 

[tom baker]

Its the phone companies way to get dialtone off the Old, Ancient, and Future Abandoned cable and "On the new technology". For Power outages, your at their mercy, I dont recall if their end is on a "Backup generator" setup, but it does give you comfort to have a "Backup System" on your end, knowing your family can go on without the inconvenience of a power failure. Hope this helps

Central office has 48 vdc battery backup. I have an ups on my teleco fiber box. Prior to fiber I had DSL which was not reliable. Originally I had a two party phone.

 

[tortuga]

When my mom's neighborhood got converted to fiber I think there was state 911 regulations where the phone company still had to supply power to the ATA/Modem device so if the power went out you could still dial out. I am not sure if they had a copper pair along with the fiber or just a battery in the Modem.
I have also run into 'digital only' copper pairs, so no -48V & no dial tone on the line from the CO, then the ATA/Modem device actually is what generates the old POTS line for the house if you want one.

 

[JoeStillman]

I have Verizon FiOS. It came with a 24V battery, and they don't maintain it. Every couple of years it starts beeping at me and I have to recycle the battery.

All Central Offices should have a generator. I designed a lot of them. They also have -48VDC battery plants out the wazoo - typically with 8 hours of runtime to get them by until they are on generator. But there is another potential point of failure now between the CO and you - it's called a slick hut in my area. Typically, no generators there, just batteries.

 

[ATSman]

Its the phone companies way to get dialtone off the Old, Ancient, and Future Abandoned cable and "On the new technology". For Power outages, your at their mercy, I dont recall if their end is on a "Backup generator" setup, but it does give you comfort to have a "Backup System" on your end, knowing your family can go on without the inconvenience of a power failure. Hope this helps

In answer to your question, yes all TELCO Central Offices and most mountain top CO's (in CA and other states) are backed up with emer generators and rooms filled with LA batteries. This is required by the PUC (state) and FCC (Fed). Part of my co business is maintaining the equipment (ATSs) that switches the CO's from utility to gen power.

 

[hbiss]

Not a matter of 48VDC, your POTS service is now supplied by the "modem" in your basement (or wherever). The service is provided over a fiber optic cable which has no way to supply power so, any power required is supplied by the, in this case the optical terminal, from a line cord plugged into your wall receptacle. Power out=no phone service. Some modems do have backup batteries which is required to maintain 911 service.

If you are concerned with outages, simply get a UPS and plug the modem into that. (The larger the longer it will run.) But be aware that area power outages can also kill power to the service provider's outside plant equipment, killing your phone service and internet and there is nothing you can do about that.

-Hal

 

[hillbilly1]

Since it is fiber now, the voice is now voip, so ring power is from the modem power, so if the modem doesn’t have power, you don’t have telephone. Some have battery backup as others have said. I’ve done a lot of cell tower upgrades, and when we get there, the batteries are totally shot, and look like they have been that way for years. Of course we changed them out, because they were upgrading from 24 vdc to 48 vdc anyway.

 

[electrofelon]

Yes please, get rid of all that POTS crap! I'm over it and sick of looking at it!

 

[Birken Vogt]

I still deal with some legacy copper both analog and T1 and almost all of it goes down eventually because of batteries out in the network, during a long outage. I hate to say it but cell is more reliable now for voice comms. I have an ATA (Analog Telephone Adapter) for my old landline number.

Fiber to the home would be the best solution. Does not require a remote hut with a battery, can go much farther than copper all the way back to the CO.

I agree with a post above, can we just get it done already? Cut down the copper and use the steel strand to hang fiber, it's already there and way stronger than fiber will require.

 

[GoldDigger]

Xfinity (Comcast) is now offering an integrated backup battery (only 4 hours) for their cable modem, including VOIP. I don't know if there is a provision for an external battery to extend the backup time, but if there is, it would be a far more efficient system than the extra conversion(s) required to use and external UPS.
Our experience running on a generator during storm or public safety power outages is that the first Comcast equipment upstream from us only has battery for about 4 hours of operation. Beyond that we only have continued service if that equipment happens to be outside the outage area.
During a recent prolonged outage they did bring in a wheeled power source to that upstream point that kept it going for the next four days.

 

[hbiss]

Since it is fiber now, the voice is now voip,

Voice Over Internet Protocol. Well, no. It's over something, just not internet protocol. I know Verizon uses separate carriers on the fiber. Voice, video and data. Modulated with a proprietary protocol. The ONT takes it and outputs POTS, RF video and IP Ethernet data.

If you happen to have IP phones from a separate service provider though, the phones would connect (wired or WiFi) to your Ethernet network from the ONT and in turn the internet. (Just like your computers, and "smart" TVs, etc.)

So, yeah. Little by little the old POTS and RF video service (coax) is being replaced by an ethernet connection.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Xfinity (Comcast) is now offering an integrated backup battery (only 4 hours) for their cable modem, including VOIP... I don't know if there is a provision for an external battery to extend the backup time, but if there is, it would be a far more efficient system than the extra conversion(s) required to use and external UPS.

You have to be careful here. The battery backup often kept only phone service working to provide access to emergency services. That was only POTS. Backup for Ethernet and TV was not provided.

This is where your confusion over the term VOIP comes in. As I stated above, most people do not have VOIP phones.

This is why I strongly recommend your own UPS if you want to use your computers and other internet connected devices during an outage. Cable companies give you nothing that they don't have to.

-Hal

 

[Fred B]

Power outage and modem phone connection only gets you no phone service during the outage. These cable company provided phone services are not mandated to maintain a connection the way the traditional telcom was. Old telcom land line "had" to maintain phone service even during a power outage, so my old land line always had tone even during an outage unless the physical line went down. But, now even with my own backup generator, I won't have land line with the modem based phone line from the cable company, as they don't have to (no goverment mandate) maintain power to their system. They maintain the stance that they are a cable tv provider and not obligated to abide by the same rules as the telephone comany, and don't have to provide a gauranteed phone connection. Just look at the "warning" they provide that explicitly states that in event of power outage you will not have phone connection even if YOU have power backup.

 

[Birken Vogt]

The cable TV network uses a bunch of powered amplifiers and batteries all up and down the system. They don't last long when the power goes out.

Here in rural California all these ideas get tested annually it seems. Landline copper = days, maybe more if they drag out a generator. Cable TV = hours. Cell network stays up but some sites go down, plus the network gets congested. Wireless ISPs scramble to keep their stuff on generator, they lug Hondas and gas cans. Starlink, no problem. Fiber to the home/office, no problem.

 

[ATSman]

Power outage and modem phone connection only gets you no phone service during the outage. These cable company provided phone services are not mandated to maintain a connection the way the traditional telcom was. Old telcom land line "had" to maintain phone service even during a power outage, so my old land line always had tone even during an outage unless the physical line went down. But, now even with my own backup generator, I won't have land line with the modem based phone line from the cable company, as they don't have to (no goverment mandate) maintain power to their system. They maintain the stance that they are a cable tv provider and not obligated to abide by the same rules as the telephone comany, and don't have to provide a gauranteed phone connection. Just look at the "warning" they provide that explicitly states that in event of power outage you will not have phone connection even if YOU have power backup.

This is not a cable TV company providing internet and land line service to me. This is AT&T telcom.
So Fred, explain to me why during an outage and my backup gen powers my modem why I would not have land line service?

 

[ggunn]

This is not a cable TV company providing internet and land line service to me. This is AT&T telcom.
So Fred, explain to me why during an outage and my backup gen powers my modem why I would not have land line service?

Because power must be up on both ends of the line for it to work?

 

[Fred B]

This is not a cable TV company providing internet and land line service to me. This is AT&T telcom.
So Fred, explain to me why during an outage and my backup gen powers my modem why I would not have land line service?

Because power must be up on both ends of the line for it to work?

Like ggunn said if there is not power at both ends there is no service. Typical phone companies are mandated to maintain a connection thus they have power backup, but the cable companies don't have such a mandate.

 

[kwired]

We have had a few telephone companies install fiber to the home to every service in the area they serve up to 12-15 years ago with some of them.

fiber was run to the structure, equipment they installed needed power supply from the premises and existing POTS phones still connected to their equipment, customers kept their existing phone numbers. Towns served by Frontier, which is not one the smaller local phone companies have had horrible service for most the last 20 years, particularly if you were out in rural areas. That company won't spend a dime to fix anything until they have to. They will eventually just disappear in this area is my guess. Many have dropped land line altogether, businesses are switching over to other internet providers and using VOIP to get their business phone service, even transferring their old numbers to that new service.

I transferred my land line number to a cell phone. I still get some legitimate calls on it, but mostly SPAM. But I've had that number like forever and did not want to lose it just yet. Most my regular clients always called my cell phone for several years now.