Photo-eye in series with time clock for school outside lights?

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190927-1500 EDT

sw_ross:

To answer your question you have to find the person that is responsible for defining how the system is to work. In other words you need the logical definition of the system. Then you can design a system to perform that logical function.

The system may already do what is intended.

As this thread progressed you provided more information on the system as it exists. A lot of comments did not address what appears to have been in the mind of the original system designer, but you did not totally define the system in the original post.

I believe you are now describing a system with two different outputs. One output is security lights, and the other is other lights. And there are two inputs. One is ambient light level, and the other is time of day which may include need for daylight saving vs standard time. In addition to these two physical inputs there may be some desire to combine in some fashion how these inputs control the outputs for minimization of energy use, lengthen light life, and minimization of the components to do the job.

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I had the same setup up at all of my school buildings. Our city ordinance allows wall packs and walkway lights to be on all night but parking lot lights must be off for a specific time overnight depending on which lighting zone the building is in and usage hours of the building.
In the past few years I have changed these all to operate through our building automation system. I have a photocell on our district facilities building (actually a pair for redundancy) that sends a signal to the BAS to operate the lights throughout the district based on each buildings unique requirements. It also allows our night snow plow crews to turn on a single building or entire district through their cell phones. The ordinance allows for plowing to supersede the time requirements.
 
__dan said:
The easiest way to do it is an astroclock. I would forget about the timeclock combo and put one of these in to control a contactor.

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TI035-Solar-Programmable-Switch/dp/B000EA6TLA

It takes a zip code and knows the sunrise / sunset time at the location so you can do on at dusk off at 10 PM, on at 4 AM off at dawn.

Very trouble free. Sometimes they gain or lose a few minutes each year.
Click to expand...

Only problem with this is that lights will not come on during in-climate days or eclipses. Photo eye in series with timer is an old way of addressing these issues, actually pretty common set-up along with making system automatically adjust for daylight period.
 
If it worked perfectly the maintenance man would complain that it's putting him out of work or taking away his work. I grew up dealing with photocells and I'm glad to see them go.

Mechanical timeclocks also. For some reason I hated seeing those things. I kinda thought they were expensive and not that reliable. They're not bad for reliability but It was not great fun to service old ones. The fun is in throwing them into iron recycling.

I have walked in on jobs they had problems with for years and popped in an Aube in 45 minutes before they even knew what was going on. It has the dimensions of a wall switch.
 
mopowr steve said:
Only problem with this is that lights will not come on during in-climate days or eclipses. Photo eye in series with timer is an old way of addressing these issues, actually pretty common set-up along with making system automatically adjust for daylight period.
Click to expand...

Kind of lost here... does it really get dark enough on a real cloudy day or an eclipse that the area lighting HAS to be on?
 

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gar said:
190927-1500 EDT

sw_ross:

To answer your question you have to find the person that is responsible for defining how the system is to work. In other words you need the logical definition of the system. Then you can design a system to perform that logical function.

The system may already do what is intended.

As this thread progressed you provided more information on the system as it exists. A lot of comments did not address what appears to have been in the mind of the original system designer, but you did not totally define the system in the original post.

I believe you are now describing a system with two different outputs. One output is security lights, and the other is other lights. And there are two inputs. One is ambient light level, and the other is time of day which may include need for daylight saving vs standard time. In addition to these two physical inputs there may be some desire to combine in some fashion how these inputs control the outputs for minimization of energy use, lengthen light life, and minimization of the components to do the job.

.
Click to expand...

Thanks GAR for the comment. My OP might've not been as descriptive as it could've been.
As the thread continued it was great to get varying opinions and feedback from different perspectives. I've definitely learned a lot about lighting control to add to my arsenal.

That's what I like about the forum, whether you're involved in a thread or just following along with other people's thread's.
 
__dan said:
The easiest way to do it is an astroclock. I would forget about the timeclock combo and put one of these in to control a contactor.

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-TI035-Solar-Programmable-Switch/dp/B000EA6TLA

It takes a zip code and knows the sunrise / sunset time at the location so you can do on at dusk off at 10 PM, on at 4 AM off at dawn.

Very trouble free. Sometimes they gain or lose a few minutes each year.
Click to expand...

I have used the Intermatic and the Lutron versions of programmable controller (astronomic).

I might look this setup over a little closer and see about the option of separating out the control of the Security circuit, use photo-cell, and the "other lights", using something like the programmable controller to operate the contactor.
 
190929-1016 EDT

This thread illustrates the need to try to figure out the correct question or questions to ask about any task or problem. In some cases you may not know what the correct questions are, and you may have the bigger task of trying to figure out what those correct questions could be.

Flickering LED lights may be one of those difficult areas.

In the case of this thread are there more than two outputs, and/or needed?

.
 
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gar said:
190929-1016 EDT


In the case of this thread are there more than two outputs, and/or needed?

.
Click to expand...

That's a conversation I'll have to have with the powers that be at the school. I'll layout what currently exists and possibly why it was set up that way, based on the information I've learned in this thread. I'll give them some options about possible changes/upgrades. Then let them make a decision about how they want to continue with the lighting control.

It might be that they don't need any upgrades/changes, they just need to have a better understanding of how it's currently designed and the intention of that design.
 
sw_ross said:
That's a conversation I'll have to have with the powers that be at the school. I'll layout what currently exists and possibly why it was set up that way, based on the information I've learned in this thread. I'll give them some options about possible changes/upgrades. Then let them make a decision about how they want to continue with the lighting control.

It might be that they don't need any upgrades/changes, they just need to have a better understanding of how it's currently designed and the intention of that design.
Click to expand...

A small logic diagram and what happens in the different scenarios may be very helpful when you are explaining.
 
Hv&Lv said:
A small logic diagram and what happens in the different scenarios may be very helpful when you are explaining.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.
i know my thought processes are better with a visual aid versus someone just describing something to me...
 
Hv&Lv said:
Kind of lost here... does it really get dark enough on a real cloudy day or an eclipse that the area lighting HAS to be on?
Click to expand...

Thinking more on the lines of those almost black out thunderstorms, etc. But the situation I’m involved with is a parking lot for shopping center.
I will agree, maintenance of the system can be problematic with cheap equipment.
 
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