photos: valve in working space

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wyreman

wyreman

Senior Member
Location
SF CA USA
Occupation
electrical contractor
So there is this historic (Eichler) building
photos: https://wr1.live/working-space-low

they have concrete driveway and the water main comes up under the meter main about 2"
There is a valve under the meter main.

General Installation Requirements, Part XXVII

As stated in 90.1(A) of the National Electrical Code (NEC), the purpose of the Code is the practical safeguarding of people and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. However, complying with NEC rules and regulations will not necessarily provide an installation that is...
www.ecmag.com www.ecmag.com
Can I build a little box with access hatch or do I have to jackhammer the entire driveway?
Thanks!

CIF_2.jpg


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Screenshot 2020-06-16 16.18.13.pngCIF_2.jpgScreenshot 2020-06-16 16.19.26.pngScreenshot 2020-06-16 16.18.13.png
 
oh sorry, yes that is the job, get rid of the zinsco breakers
like for like

its also 79" AFF
and the sprinkler is close to the 36", but not in it

but the big thing is the elbow with the valve,
city doesn't care, but utility is looking at it
I said, cant i just build a little box for it
they are going to get back to me

otherwise it looks like jackhammer the driveway = no job
 
Why would you jack hammer? If you are staying overhead can you just move the meter & panel around the corner. The old panel can be a JB
 
Historical building. Front facing wall by the entrance. I proposed moving the drop to the front but they didn’t like it.
One thing I didn’t think of is we could just leave it alone and put a splice block or a 150a cb in there and just use the legacy zinsco for a meter with a switch.

leave it there and move everything else to the inside of the garage
That’s what I was going to do anyway because there’s just 8” for a new meter main
 
The pipes with the elbows coming out and facing down are in the dedicated equipment space so they must go too. How are they allowing the service entrance conductors to be concealed by the building finish? Looks like the entire thing needs a do over.
 
I don’t know what you mean, the service entrance conductors are concealed in
1-1/4” RMC
 
The other pipes are drain pipes from the boiler they could be moved
Looks like the best bet is going to be to remove the distribution from the service put a main breaker at the new distribution 6 feet from the meter main switch
Leave the Zinski man because of that fell down below.
Yeah that looks like Leave the zinsci main because of the valve down low.
 

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✅...Sent on the go; please forgive any tpyos!
Zinsco main
Valve below

seems dumb tho quite frankly
Let’s see what poco finally says.
At least I have an option, thank you guys!
 
infinity said:
Unless that raceway is encased in concrete it cannot be concealed it has to be on the outside of the building.
Click to expand...
Wow
61 years old I never heard that!
New work always goes outside
This is supposed to replace like for like in a building from 1953
I think everything the way it was just changing out the zinsco breakers

moving the distribution > 6 feet
 
So I have to move the main pretty far.
More than six feet.

What happens if the relocated circuits won’t support afci breakers?
 
The panel looks to me to be a semi-flush mount and so the dedicated space under the footprint of the panel might not even extend far enough from the wall to include the pipe and the valve. In which case what we have instead is an intrusion into the working space. It seems quite possible to me that an inspector might consider that to be a minimal intrusion that could be tolerated. The surface mounted (sprinkler control or cable?) box does not qualify for either dedicated space or working space protection, but may itself constitute a working space infringement.
The boiler drain pipes, since they penetrate the wall, seem to clearly violate the dedicated space rule, but as noted are probably easy to relocate a foot or two in either direction,
 
Oh I mean relocated existing circuits more than 6’ means they have To get afci protection. What if they won’t support afci protection?
 
My take is to leave the existing meter/main in place as it is grandfathered as it is. Put a new sub panel inside somewhere and make new home runs for the existing circuits to it. It's a lot of work, but less than violating the external integrity of their "architectural masterpiece". And yes, if you change the box, you must upgrade to AFCIs, and Zinsco does not support AFCIs as far as I know.

I put that in quotes because I grew up near an Eichler community in the 60s and by then, which was only about 10 years after being built, they were considered junk and eyesores. Eichler was a builder / developer who basically "stole" some ideas from Frank Lloyd Wright (called "Usonian") in home designs and mass produced them, cheaply in early to mid 1950s. He built around 10,000 or more in a handful of planned communities in mostly Northern California., a few in Southern California, before the style lost its appeal. People who bought them in the 50s couldn't give them away 10 years later and that lasted up until the late 1990s. When I moved back to the Bay Area in 1997, my realtor took me to a couple, but when I told her my story, she laughed and agreed; she said the only good thing was that we could have bought one with more square footage for the same money as anywhere else, because sellers had a hard time unloading them. Then suddenly taround Y2K hey became "mid-century modern" and trendy again, now people get a 20+% premium for the equivalent square footage. I don't get it. To me, they are still ugly and they are EXTREMELY energy inefficient for California; too much glass, not enough insulation, so keeping them cool is super expensive.

From the shot with the foothills in the background, is that the Rancho San Miguel development in Walnut Creek?
 
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