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Who's claiming ownership of that "speedy" installation?

That definitely wouldn't fly around here.

Is this a "count the violations" test?

steve

PS....the attached picture is some of my work.
I'm trying to learn how to attach a picture.
Apparently I can, but I don't know how it happened.
The quality is crap.
 
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Along the same lines....I RARELY use box offsets when running exposed conduit.

I NEVER use them inside walls.

No pics...use your imagination. :grin:





On the last pics posted, the only real issue I saw was no connector. I don't see the problem with cables running a little ugly in the walls/ceiling space.
 
walkerj said:
Yea that would have definately caused some problems down the line. The romex was resting on the sharp sheet metal.

If you are talking about the exhaust fan then that is probably a bushed opening. The fans we use now all have this type of opening, it is very smooth and rounded, not sharp.
I still use a connector.
 
Going to throw my 2 pence in as a non-electrician.

Since I spend my time building up experimental hardware, designing printed circuit boards, laying out test inverters, etc. all that I can say is 'neatness counts'. The best way that I can put it is that when hardware is neat, flaws are simply more visible and easier to fix.

I believe that this applies to the way wires are laid out behind the wallboard. Sure, your customer may never see them once the insulation is in and the wallboard up, but neatness will make a performance difference in terms of the errors that you catch and the debugging time spent fixing flaws.

That said, what I am talking about is _practical_ neatness. _Twists_ in the romex don't matter, but support does. Putting your holes at 20.000" from stud bottom doesn't matter; putting them 'to eye' level probably does. Simply laying a rats nest of conductors across the ceiling is not sufficient, but perhaps just a few bridle rings would suffice to separate related runs. 'Neat and workmanlike' is _not_ 'perfect and CDO' ('CDO' is like 'OCD', except that the letters are in proper alphabetical order... :) ) Neat and workmanlike is showing care and forethought in the installation so as to maximize installation efficiency.

'Neatness' can go too far. Work all of the twists out of the romex, and then run it with an iron? Sure looks pretty, but now if the building settles, there is no slack at all on that conductor. Bends _should_ have some radius, support should allow some give. IMHO that trick of using a wrap of sheath to support the romex is a great idea. Perhaps it needs to be evaluated by UL for strength, but presuming that it is strong enough for the job, I bet it works well from the point of view of being a nice compliant support, letting things move and slip just enough to relieve excessive stresses. IMHO the original picture showing a bunch of NM running side by side an inch or so apart is _too_ neat for inside a wall...though on a running board in an unfinished basement? A pleasure.

-Jon
 
winnie said:
I believe that this applies to the way wires are laid out behind the wallboard. Sure, your customer may never see them once the insulation is in and the wallboard up, but neatness will make a performance difference in terms of the errors that you catch and the debugging time spent fixing flaws

That might be true if we actually 'debugged' before the drywall goes up. :grin:

Typically any 'debugging' will be done at finish and there should not be much if anything to fix.

Wiring a standard home should be second nature to those that do it, it's not experimental and it is not high tech. :smile:
 
hillbilly said:
Who's claiming ownership of that "speedy" installation?

That definitely wouldn't fly around here.

That would be me and the only reason it wouldnt FLY would be that it is properly securred and supported..:grin:
 
splinetto said:

Neat work, and NEC compliant, but I wonder if it is building code compliant? That is 10 holes close together in a load-bearing wall, are there any issues with that? Also, can the insulators get the required R-rateing?

I'm not familiar enough with the building codes to know for sure, but I never fill up insulated walls like that.
 
This strikes home with me.

The very first panel I ever wired was honest to god, all modesty aside, the neatest panel I have ever seen and probably ever will. Down side? I kid you not, I spent seven hours on it. Every wire was razor straight and every change of position or direction was a perfect 90 degree angle. Beautiful? Yes. Total waste of time and effort? Yes.

That being said, the reason I hate residential work is because I never got the chance to work with guys who even came close to the quality of work posted by Splinetto. There are so many guys (maybe the majority) who don't even meet the basic standard of code, I'm not about to criticize someone who goes above and beyond.

For me the quality of the work I do is an issue of pride as much as it is a service to the customer. Judging by the photos I'd wager Splinetto feels similarly.

-John
 
the funniest part about being in this industry is watching the attitudes change from when a guy is an employee to when he is an employer...i honestly wish they wouldn't, but when a guy becomes an employer, he realizes that there is money involved...usually not enough...
 
maybe some of these guys can open up a shop together and call it "It'll Barely Pass Code Electric" and on the vans they can have FPN's that say if you pay more we will do a better job. (but dont count on it since FPN's are not enforceable)
 
splinetto said:
and on the vans they can have FPN's that say if you pay more we will do a better job.

Obviously, you are not a business owner. :D

When you start seeing things from an employers perspective, you will realize that it doesn't make good business sense to give your work away.
 
some of my latest work...

some of my latest work...

All from a new grocery store...


wfpipe1gu0.jpg


3/4" EMT homeruns, kicked at 30deg to panels below.



wfpipe2iu4.jpg


Other side of rack, 2" feeders kicked into panels from above.
4 horizontal in front, 2 vertical in back.

wfpipe3dt1.jpg


2" feeders rolling offset of over 10', all factory bends.
The offsets and extending the rack 30' took 2 guys one day.

We can't get away with using SER for feeders here.
The homeruns were too long and numerous for MC to be efficient.
 
stevenj76 said:
All from a new grocery store...

The homeruns were too long and numerous for MC to be efficient.

Nice work. :)

That's funny, our super markets are wired with nothing but MC here, except the large feeders for the service and the larger subpanels.

From our perspective here in New England, it would be considered pure insanity to pipe a supermarket. The schedules are too tight and it's not a common practice, and the budgets would not allow it either. We use MC cable for everything here. And before MC was popular, most of the large supermarkets were wired with romex.
 
more and more MC cable here...most big box retail/supermarkets around here use reloc lighting systems...most conduits underground...and the occasional overhead conduit...but mostly MC...

$60 x 2 x 8 = $960 / 240 = $4/ft in just labor to install the conduit...no material or overhead...no wonder you have to charge $25-$30/ft depending on the wiring...:D
 
emahler said:
haven't we picked on poor brant enough for using solder and tape?:D

:D :D :D --- did you ever see the family guy where stewie plays the glad game? it was just naming simple things in life that make you glad. mine is the 'pop' from pushing your finger through the plastic around a new roll of temflex. ahh. it really is a joyful thing. :D
 
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