pictures

[Dennis Alwon]

1) 2 wires in a clamp-- big deal-- I agree
2) wire too close to stud-- I think that is important. I always run my wire around the side of a box not the back of it unless it is a 2x6 wall. The idea is to avoid nails yet everone thinks its not a big deal.
3) may be the bending radius of the nm. I don't believe that is compliant.

 

[fireryan]

Whats a stacker?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Whats a stacker?

Here is the most common style

 

[Cavie]

Mac it is much ado about nothing but it is also about understanding what the code states.

I remember some EC's getting turned down for using the entry close to the stud because the wire upon entry would be less than 1-1/4". BS- yes but technically correct.

Suppose the wire ran up the entire length of the stud close to the edge. Is that compliant? I say No.... It needs to be stapled toward the center.

Dennis is 100% correct. It would not pass my inspection. Or any other inspector I know.

 

[BJ Conner]

Bending Radius??

Bending Radius??

I see nothing unsafe.

I an't measure the bending radius of the cable but I would bet a small lunch that it's to small.

 

[stevebea]

I would fail it. It is one thing to be less than 1-1/4" from the stud where it enters the box but to go behind the box--sorry I don't see that as being compliant.

I dont see either how it could be compliant without a stud guard or nail plate.

 

[Teaspoon]

He took money and ran.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I would fail it. It is one thing to be less than 1-1/4" from the stud where it enters the box but to go behind the box--sorry I don't see that as being compliant.

So no wire could use the first knock-out.

The 1?" rule only applies to cables run through holes bored in the studs.

Read 300.4(D)

Article 334.17 takes us to 300.4 (D). It sounds clear to me that if it is less than 1-1/4 from the face of the stud then it needs to toward the center of the stud.

I think you quoted the wrong part of the article.

That is news to me.

Bob is always the last to know.

Dennis is 100% correct. It would not pass my inspection. Or any other inspector I know.

I do not 'like' it but I have nothing to hang my hat on if I would fail it.

I an't measure the bending radius of the cable but I would bet a small lunch that it's to small.

So how do I make the 6" of free conductors in the box work? Would you make me 'coil' them?

I dont see either how it could be compliant without a stud guard or nail plate.

Again I do not like it. No code prohibits this.

Forgot to include Bob's first post. Like it or not he is correct.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So no wire could use the first knock-out.

I use it all the time however, I believe it is a violation since the cable is too close to the edge.

I think you quoted the wrong part of the article.

I don't think I did. First sentence in 334.17 tells us to use 300.4 where installed through or parallel to framing members. I just clarified 300.4(D).

I do not 'like' it but I have nothing to hang my hat on if I would fail it.

300.4(D) why not-- the cable cannot be run 1-1/4" from the nearest edge of the framing member. If it is run close to where the sheetrock would mount to the stud then it is not 1-1/4" away. The 1-1/4" does not just apply to one side of the stud-- it states nearest edge of the framing member. The front edge is an edge....Remember the heading is "Cables and Raceways where run Parallel to framing members & furring strips. When mention 1-1/4" if it doesn't apply?

So how do I make the 6" of free conductors in the box work? Would you make me 'coil' them?

We are talking about cable not conductors.
Read 334.24

334.24 Bending Radius.
]Bends in Types NM, NMC, and NMS cable shall be so made that the cable will not be damaged. The radius of the curve of the inner edge of any bend during or after installation shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I use it all the time however, I believe it is a violation since the cable is too close to the edge.

I don't think I did. First sentence in 334.17 tells us to use 300.4 where installed through or parallel to framing members. I just clarified 300.4(D).

300.4(D) why not-- the cable cannot be run 1-1/4" from the nearest edge of the framing member. If it is run close to where the sheetrock would mount to the stud then it is not 1-1/4" away. The 1-1/4" does not just apply to one side of the stud-- it states nearest edge of the framing member. The front edge is an edge....Remember the heading is "Cables and Raceways where run Parallel to framing members & furring strips. When mention 1-1/4" if it doesn't apply?


We are talking about cable not conductors.
Read 334.24

Confused? If you think that it is a violation why would you do it?

As to 300.4(D) if the cable is in 'free air' how does this apply?

334.24 --"or after installation shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable."

So I can bend the $!^^ out of the conductor but not the cable?

 

[cadpoint]

I really don't like the third photo, I realy don't like any of it!
It looks like it hung in a door frame and a door hindge (looks like) is on the other
side and is not strapped to boot....

I also voted NO on the other thread... and I agree with Dennis.

I've always thought there was no allowable pinch point could or can be induced in any manner in running a circuit!
I only thought is was allowed to be pinched inside a box or suitable assembly point.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Confused? If you think that it is a violation why would you do it?

Because I believe there should be an exception there and it doesn't make sense to make a box with the knockouts there if you can't use them. I still say it is a violation but most don't push that as it is a bit nit picky.

As to 300.4(D) if the cable is in 'free air' how does this apply?

what does free air have to do with 300.4

334.24 --"or after installation shall not be less than five times the diameter of the cable."

So I can bend the $!^^ out of the conductor but not the cable?

Mike I quoted the articles what more can I say-- and I don't care if you bend the heck out of the conductor -- I quoted you the article. I don't know what else to say.

 

[DaveBowden]

Is it still a violation to staple 2 cables on edge under 1 staple. The second picture shows that.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Is it still a violation to staple 2 cables on edge under 1 staple. The second picture shows that.

Good eyes that is a 4th violation--- art. 334.30 last sentence of 1st paragraph. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge. This installer did a great job. :grin:

 

[mxslick]

I see nothing unsafe.

I agree with Bob. A bit sloppy, but nothing that's unsafe or likely to make the house burst into flames. :roll:

Maybe not but I'd bet it wouldn't pass inspection just on workmanship alone.

Workmanship is somewhat subjective and difficult to enforce, I have seen work a LOT worse than this pass with no problem.

Not the neatest work, but it should pass inspection.

Exactly.

I would fail it. It is one thing to be less than 1-1/4" from the stud where it enters the box but to go behind the box--sorry I don't see that as being compliant.

I'd love to see an enforceable code section to back the bold part up. Wire passes behind boxes all the time and has never been an issue. The bending radius argument is questionable at best, as wire properly secured/routed as it exits the drilled holes in studs has the same stress applied to the sheath and I have never seen that tagged. (or cause damage to the cable for that matter.)

Like macmikeman said in post #16, much ado about nothing. (With the SOLE exception of the loose cable in pic one and the cables stapled on their sides in pic 2. )

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'd love to see an enforceable code section to back the bold part up. Wire passes behind boxes all the time and has never been an issue. The bending radius argument is questionable at best, as wire properly secured/routed as it exits the drilled holes in studs has the same stress applied to the sheath and I have never seen that tagged. (or cause damage to the cable for that matter.

I gave the code sections 3 or 4 times. If you don't think it is enforceable then there is nothing I can say about it. If you install wire behind the back then, IMO, you are in violation- 300.4(D)-- it is pretty clear- you don't want to abide by it or believe it that is your prerogative but it is clear in black & white.

The bending radius is questionable???? How can you say that when the article specifically disallows it.

Personally I don't care if it passes or fails. I think it is bad work and is asking for trouble. These are all minor infraction- I agree but I am just quoting code. I just don't understand how you can say the sections are questionable.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Like macmikeman said in post #16, much ado about nothing. (With the SOLE exception of the loose cable in pic one and the cables stapled on their sides in pic 2. )

But you still think it should pass. 4 violations on one install- heck if it were one box I probably would mention it to the ec but if all the boxes were like that I could not in good conscience pass it. Fortunately I am not an inspector.

 

[perry vogler]

pictures

Come to Florida, I will show you some pictures. I see no code violations and really you are just blowing your own horn. Lets see your after pictures. We want to your work. Remember what causes fires, connection, overloading etc, not perfect picture work. PV

 

[mivey]

Hope those are 22's and not 20's as it needs 20.25 with device.

 

[B W E]

Seriously?

Seriously?

Seems like the pictures show pretty typical work. The staples are fine, with i guess the exception of the romexes stapled together on edge. Romex needs to be stapled within 12' of the box, not 6", so thats fine. The bend radius? Are you kidding me? Whoever brought that up, thank god you're not an inspector. Now all holes have to be drilled through the stud that a box is mounted to at a 45 degree angle so as not to OVERBEND the romex? please. There is more damage done to romex by idiots that cant make up a box than by running it through studs and around obstacles.

i have NEVER seen an inspector flag a romex that was run behind a box. If you are retarded and run it the entire length of the stud stapled right at the edge of the stud then flag it.....but directly er-route to a box? Come on.....find something else to complain about.

What irks me the most if that I would bet the farm the OP spent a TON of time talking crap about the other EC to his customer, instead of letting his work speak for itself...... and thats lame.

I saw NOTHING in those photos that was fundamentally unsafe. Was there stuff there for a potential bunch of ninnies to get their panties in a bunch? Sure. But unsafe? No.