Pipe Rack hanging from Pan Deck...

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macmikeman said:
Drilling holes in concrete decks is no big deal when using a Hilti rotary hammer drill, it goes almost as fast as using a hilti gun and threaded studs.
My prefered method over the years for threaded rod hanging has been using drop anchors, but you have to double check and take care in installing same so you don't get pull out failures. (I'm not really positive if they are listed for upside down use, but work great there anyway). 2nd choice would be using parabolt anchors. Third is the 3/8" hilti studs fired from the hilti gun. (concrete blowouts common). Now Eric, if a small little bitty blip of an establishment way out on a sandbar in the middle of the ocean can afford a 3/8" Hilti gun, surely a multinational jet set megacorporation with headquarters in New Jersey for crying out loud can, can they not??? :roll: :grin:
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i don't know....jet fuel is through the roof:D and don't get me started about the country club dues....
 
i just checked with our hvac side (they make the big bucks) turns out we have one for 3/8" studs...so it's an option...
 
emahler said:
i just checked with our hvac side (they make the big bucks) turns out we have one for 3/8" studs...so it's an option...
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Be prepared for a sore arm (sore employee's arm).. due to kickback. I sorta dread using mine it doesn't get a whole lotta use cause of that.
 
emahler said:
these will be in 5' from racks hung from I-Beams with 3/8" BC's and rod...(the I-Beams are 10' apart, and these are in the middle)

hilti makes a 3/8" threaded stud...the 1 5/8" shank pin had a tension strength of about 450lbs...so that's an option...but the guns we have only accept up to 1/4" studs:D
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A stick of unistrut to I-Beams BCed.
 
I dont particularly trust shot in anchors on a straight down pull especially with a heavy load. I do trust steel anchors in concrete that I set myself.
 
Hilti makes a DX pole for shooting anchors in from the floor, so you don't have to get on a ladder or lift to shoot your pins. Also is easier on the arm.

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ramsy said:
If plans spec a 3/8 rod for the rack weight, wouldn't possible seizmic failure result in liability for rework, downtime, & third-party injury? Especially if investigators found those 3/8 rods attached from 1/4" holes drilled into the supporting structure?
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Really a PITA to link to it - so follow This and pick the PDF named "General & Special Application Fasteners - Tech Guide" see page #8

Max tension values don't necessarily go up because the bolt is bigger - a 1/4-20 has 240 @ 1 1/4", and a 3/8-16 has 160 @ 1 1/4"

Although the more I look at it - it seems like a type-o?????:rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the nice reference. I'm kicking myself for drilling & sleaving 3/8", after seeing all those approved listings for powder-driven fastners.

About that reference, except in heavy steal (pg.12), it appears equal depth 1/4" W6 fastners beat the 3/8" W10 in other concrete tables pg 7,8. The issue Hilti is having with the 3/8" faster may not be a typo, or limited to Robinson decking.
 
When shooting studs into the concrete how do you know that they will actually support the load? With a mechanical fastener you will tighten it by hand and at least be able to feel if it's tight. When you use a stud fired from a gun do you just put all the weight on the rack and wait for it to fall down to test it?
 
Hilti reps are very nice indeed to come out to your job and make calculations for you and check out the concrete you'll be shooting in and even give you some free pins/shots to try out. I have nothing but good to say about their service here in Portland OR area. They can train your guys as well on proper use and maintenance of the HIlti tools.
 
scrooge said:
A stick of unistrut to I-Beams BCed.
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we are doing that on the beam...these were for in between the beams to add support...also boxes will be mounted on some beams...(though we could solve this with a Caddy B18)

but we reconfigured the conduit runs today, so we only have to install 2 or 3 racks out of the pan deck...so hilti hammer drill and rawls here we come:D
 
infinity said:
When you use a stud fired from a gun do you just put all the weight on the rack and wait for it to fall down to test it?
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Yep - but you could be waiting quite some time....

Normally I over do it on hanging trapezes for support anyway, instead of just 2, I'll do 3-4 or add some in 5' instead of 10' - so I worry very little - depending on the concrete...... Most relatively - and I mean that in a broad 40 year sense - modern concrete you can tell on the first shot if it spalls at all. Otherwise you can trust most every shot - within reason. I wont be swinging like Tarzan on one shot, or would I with a mechanical anchor. But with a number of them - yeah why not.... Anyway, with the wide variation of concrete out there - I would trust the shot pins more on good concrete over anchors. If you leave a little dust in there it can be like ball bearings allowing that anchor to come out.

Seriously - I have no idea why they dont make a grid of pre-cast spring nut clips mandatory in all new construction?!?!?!?

The other day I was completely done drilling simple 1 1/4" plastic anchors for a single 1/2" conduit and and a few boxes, then had some HOA "Engineering Rep" call me and give the a long lecture on his building and it's PTS design...... "Oh you can't drill into the cieling down there more than a 1/2"......" (Explains why I wouldn't touch the strut that was falling off the cieling - since he's obviously been telling people that for a while....) Took ten minutes to get a word in edgewise to tell him I was done already and the building was still habitable... :mad: And what anchor does one use for only a 1/2" - Glue?
 
yursparky said:
Hilti reps are very nice indeed to come out to your job and make calculations for you and check out the concrete you'll be shooting in and even give you some free pins/shots to try out. I have nothing but good to say about their service here in Portland OR area. They can train your guys as well on proper use and maintenance of the HIlti tools.
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So very true - thats what you pay for - I have had them on-site to (figuratively) hold my hand through some firestopping inspection issues - with a problem inspector.
 
yursparky said:
Hilti reps are very nice indeed to come out to your job and make calculations for you and check out the concrete you'll be shooting in and even give you some free pins/shots to try out. I have nothing but good to say about their service here in Portland OR area. They can train your guys as well on proper use and maintenance of the HIlti tools.
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When I bought my 3/8" Hilti gun from the Hilti salesman in the mobile van many years ago he threw in a case of shot, loads and a brand new 10" table saw.:cool:
 
Has anyone used these powder actuated Hilti's to mount 1-5/8 strut?
Will the gun head fit in the strut channel and properly nail the fastner flush & seated?

Now for the next burning question. Will these powder actuated fastners work with hollow block massonry?

Can you nail strut to outside structures of commercial buildings with walls made from those cheep, hollow, thin wall massonry blocks, without blowing them to smitherines?
 
It seems anchoring is covered.

It is alot easier to have the strut face up(U) than down (n), that way you lay the conduit on it, rather than holding it up.
 
Awg-Dawg said:
It seems anchoring is covered.

It is alot easier to have the strut face up(U) than down (n), that way you lay the conduit on it, rather than holding it up.
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A few manufactures make one-peice strps that make it quite easy from below IMO.

ramsy, They make a shot and nail for most anything - sometimes it comes down to a trial run to get it sorted out. This pin, and this load - as many types of simular things like block may not be like the last blocks you shot - in density etc. Most pins with washers will fit in deep strut - some guns won't - but usually they are made for larger stuff. But if shooting strut direct - you can put one in whatever recomended spacing per shot, and hang quite a bit of pipe from it. Just always be sure to calc the load and the max's of the pins, and spread the load out. i.e. not 500lbs from a single pin, say 2-300lbs lbs rated pins spaced out equally from the load.

macmikeman, an old boss opened an account and for doing so got a REALLY GOOD line laser free - just for the account, bought a gun at the same time - and got enough shot and pins for two whole jobs where I put that thing through a work-out. What they want is to get you addictied to the quality and service, and hope you ignore the regular high cost. :rolleyes:
 
e57 said:
ramsy, They make a shot and nail for most anything... What they want is to get you addictied to the quality and service, and hope you ignore the regular high cost. :rolleyes:
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Does anybondy offer this equipment as rentals, especially for small jobs?
 
e57 said:
The other day I was completely done drilling simple 1 1/4" plastic anchors for a single 1/2" conduit and and a few boxes, then had some HOA "Engineering Rep" call me and give the a long lecture on his building and it's PTS design...... "Oh you can't drill into the cieling down there more than a 1/2"......" (Explains why I wouldn't touch the strut that was falling off the cieling - since he's obviously been telling people that for a while....) Took ten minutes to get a word in edgewise to tell him I was done already and the building was still habitable... :mad: And what anchor does one use for only a 1/2" - Glue?
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Plastic anchors? What happens in a fire?
 
I use caddy # 310 series beam clamps ( reversible) with threaded rod and clamp right on the top of the steel support beams in the slots where the decking comes into contact with the beam. If I only have one raceway I may use a mini clip if I have a few raceways like you described I will use 3/4" or 1" 5/8 strut. I do this work all the time and speaking for myself I have found no faster way.

Mark
 
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