Plastic Tie Wraps on LFMC

[Dennis Alwon]

The question is based on the use of tie wraps. Art. 330.30 allows tie wraps for MC cable. The nec also allows it for other cables like AC etc. I don't see it specifically mentioned for LFMC. So how does one support a piece of LFMC from a disconnect to a heat pump or an ac unit if tie wraps are not allowed? This was asked of me by a member. I use tie wraps all the time and tie it to the refrigerant lines-- never been an issue and of, course, I use the black wraps that are rated sunlight resistant

330.30 Securing and Supporting.
(A) General. Type MC cable shall be supported and secured
by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings
or other approved means designed and installed so as
not to damage the cable.

350.30(A) Securely Fastened. LFMC shall be securely fastened
in place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of
each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other conduit termination
and shall be supported and secured at intervals not to
exceed 1.4 m (41?2 ft).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No opinions here...

 

[ActionDave]

Tie wraps :thumbsup:

 

[iwire]

No opinions here...

I would use UV rated ones .....

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The black ones that are stocked here are UV rated. But do you guys agree that technically the tie wraps are not compliant?

 

[iwire]

The black ones that are stocked here are UV rated. But do you guys agree that technically the tie wraps are not compliant?

Approved means is wide open.


Assuming I did not tie-wrap it to say the refrigeration line set and I used tie-wraps suitable for the location I would expect to pass inspection.

 

[ActionDave]

I think ty wraps are are fine. The inspector is allowed to approve or disapprove, so it's up to him.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

From the CMP 8 ballot report for the first draft of the 2017.

(A) Securely Fastened.
LFMC shall be securely fastened in place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other conduit
termination and shall be supported and secured at intervals not to exceed 1.4 m (41?2 ft). Where used, cable ties shall be listed and be identified
for securement and support.

 

[ptonsparky]

Now are those wraps rated for support as well? :roll:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

From the CMP 8 ballot report for the first draft of the 2017.

So the 2017 may add it but it is not code now. I agree that it is an authority having jurisdiction call but the simple omission of this info now for LFMC I was assuming to be deliberate-- maybe not

 

[electricalist]

So cable ties that don't exist are acceptable for securing and support.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I would use UV rated ones .....

where can i find UV rated opinions?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So cable ties that don't exist are acceptable for securing and support.

From what I see cable ties are not acceptable to secure lfmc. Bs in my opinion especially for a short whip to an outdoor unit. We do it all the time but no one calls it.

 

[ActionDave]

From what I see cable ties are not acceptable to secure lfmc. Bs in my opinion especially for a short whip to an outdoor unit. We do it all the time but no one calls it.

Cable ties/tie wraps don't have to be spelled out to be approved. I can use tie wire to secure EMT or MC all the time because my inspectors approve....that's good enough for me.

When an inspector approves anything I have done I don't ask any questions.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Cable ties/tie wraps don't have to be spelled out to be approved. I can use tie wire to secure EMT or MC all the time because my inspectors approve....that's good enough for me.

When an inspector approves anything I have done I don't ask any questions.

That is fine but we have a member whose inspector turned him down for using UV tie wraps on LFMC. He did not offer an alternative means. I can't seem to support the install with a code section.

 

[kwired]

Cable ties/tie wraps don't have to be spelled out to be approved. I can use tie wire to secure EMT or MC all the time because my inspectors approve....that's good enough for me.

When an inspector approves anything I have done I don't ask any questions.

That is fine but we have a member whose inspector turned him down for using UV tie wraps on LFMC. He did not offer an alternative means. I can't seem to support the install with a code section.

It is those nit picky inspectors out there that cause us to need to spell out every detail in the code.

I've had situations with MC cable, and for most of my career have been using those deep throat NM staples designed for securing multiple NM cables because they work great for secruring MC cable. Unless you really try hard, are difficult to overdrive and damage cable. More recently inspectors decided they are not listed for MC cable and will not allow their use with MC cable. I can use a simple metal staple that has no listing though, and the new guy that doesn't pay that close attention to details can overdrive it and damage the cable and this is good - I guess

 

[ActionDave]

That is fine but we have a member whose inspector turned him down for using UV tie wraps on LFMC. He did not offer an alternative means. I can't seem to support the install with a code section.

He can use tie wire instead or move up the food chain and appeal to the inspector's boss.