I custom design/build adaptive equipment for the disabled. I have been asked to address a solution to the problem created by "Father's" commandment "THOU SHALT NEVER REMOVE AN APPLIANCE PLUG FROM ITS RECEPTACLE BY PULLING ON THE CORD!" Many of my clients have very weak finger grip strength. I have devised a method of attaching a tie-wrap around a two conductor plug with a metal key-ring attached to the free end that works marvelously. Is such a "special case" modification to a plug allowed by N.E.C.? Picture available at http://marrick.com/plugpuller.html
"Plug Puller"
- Thread starter mdds
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: "Plug Puller"
Sorry, but I don't like your "special case modification." I think it's dangerous. Well intended, I am sure, but dangerous. To directly answer your question, however, I don't think the NEC would explicitly forbid it, unless 110.3(B) can be brought in to play (i.e., not using a device in accordance with the listing instructions).
I have two problems with the device. One concern is that the plug cannot be fully inserted into the receptacle. That will leave some amount of exposed energized metal, and might prevent the plug from making a good connection.
More importantly, however, is that cable tie wraps are not designed to be used as an insulation system. The purpose of insulation is to prevent electrical current from leaking from an energized conductor to the outside world (including the person using the equipment). That cable tie could easily shift in position, and come into contact with one of the metal plugs. All it would take is for a person to pull sideways. I do not know whether or not there could be any current flowing along the tie wrap to the metal ring and into the hand of the operator. That would depend on the material from which the tie wrap was constructed. But I do know that the manufacturer of the tie wrap is not going to give you a guarantee that it would not conduct electricity.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board. I think a simpler solution is to design, modify, or just select a hand tool that is made of non-conductive materials, and that can be used to help the user get a grip on the plug.
Sorry, but I don't like your "special case modification." I think it's dangerous. Well intended, I am sure, but dangerous. To directly answer your question, however, I don't think the NEC would explicitly forbid it, unless 110.3(B) can be brought in to play (i.e., not using a device in accordance with the listing instructions).
I have two problems with the device. One concern is that the plug cannot be fully inserted into the receptacle. That will leave some amount of exposed energized metal, and might prevent the plug from making a good connection.
More importantly, however, is that cable tie wraps are not designed to be used as an insulation system. The purpose of insulation is to prevent electrical current from leaking from an energized conductor to the outside world (including the person using the equipment). That cable tie could easily shift in position, and come into contact with one of the metal plugs. All it would take is for a person to pull sideways. I do not know whether or not there could be any current flowing along the tie wrap to the metal ring and into the hand of the operator. That would depend on the material from which the tie wrap was constructed. But I do know that the manufacturer of the tie wrap is not going to give you a guarantee that it would not conduct electricity.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board. I think a simpler solution is to design, modify, or just select a hand tool that is made of non-conductive materials, and that can be used to help the user get a grip on the plug.
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: "Plug Puller"
mdds,
I applaud your efforts! I think it is inappropriate to suggest that because a person has a more difficulty gripping the plug than the average person, that person should be forced to resign himself/herself to dependency on another individual. Perhaps we should remove the automatic door openers, ramps, support rails, brail writing, whatever from society and force that use these aids to rely on the rest of society for everything.
When I can't seem to get a bolt loose, I get a tool to do the job, too.
As to whether or not what you have created is compliant, I'll leave that to the more experienced people on this site.
Bob
mdds,
I applaud your efforts! I think it is inappropriate to suggest that because a person has a more difficulty gripping the plug than the average person, that person should be forced to resign himself/herself to dependency on another individual. Perhaps we should remove the automatic door openers, ramps, support rails, brail writing, whatever from society and force that use these aids to rely on the rest of society for everything.
When I can't seem to get a bolt loose, I get a tool to do the job, too.
As to whether or not what you have created is compliant, I'll leave that to the more experienced people on this site.
Bob
Re: "Plug Puller"
[ February 13, 2006, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
I took out that line, I apoligize for any misunderstanding but this is no time to joke(I looked up the word Charlie because I didn't know what the heck you were saying). But I stand firm: All the aids you listed have been run through a battery of tests with safety been the number one priority, and have been approved by a testing agency for use in the public sector, what I see in the photo is some "thought" put out into an area where the general public is using it without the proper testing. And as Charlie stated this can pose a danger. Mdds is taking a big chance that some one could get injured or God forbid killed as a direct or indirect use of said device then what? Lets all put on our common sense caps on and think. By the way Mdds I too applaud your effort but for safeties sake, test this in a controlled environment first before you make it available to the general public.
[ February 13, 2006, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: "Plug Puller"
jhr: I believe Bob was being facetious. You'll note that he too was supportive of the notion of helping others.Originally posted by Jhr: Oh come now!
peteo
Senior Member
- Location
- Los Angeles
Re: "Plug Puller"
Since you are already building products for the disabled, you?re probably much more familiar with ADA and state regulations than I am. Charlie, our moderator, is wiser than I and has suggested a very practical alternative. It would take several paragraphs to cover all the intricacies of NEC testing and standards. The basic one is that, for practical safeguarding from electrical hazards, products must be listed and labeled for the use. Listing means that a third party test laboratory (i.e., UL) has approved the product. To use in a specific location or situation, the product must in addition be ?labeled for the use,? which is part of the listing process. There?s no bypassing these rules.
Your product may be fine for someone to use whom you know and with specific needs. In the case of promoting a product for general and unsupervised use, however, your best bet would be to use the tactic insurance companies do first ? specifically, never take anything on alone. I can think of safer products which accomplish what you?re thinking of. Hubbell makes an ?ergo grip,? and further, their divison Kellems makes cord grips with a nylon basket around the cable, similar to a chinese finger torture toy. The Kellems products you may wish to look at would include cable support, pulling, and deluxe cord grips, but to my knowledge the Kellems products are not intended (legally, listed) for this application. It may be wisest to work with state or federal ADA regulators, as electrical product listings involve fire and consumer product safety concerns as part of design standards. I?m certain that the Hubbell and/or Kellems people would like nothing better than to see their products being used for accessibility, but of course they?re not going to suggest any use other than what is in their listing. If a recognized authority, for example, a state ADA commission, suggests a new use, you?d be in a different league.
Best of luck and hopefully more will chime in with suggestions, observations, etc.
Since you are already building products for the disabled, you?re probably much more familiar with ADA and state regulations than I am. Charlie, our moderator, is wiser than I and has suggested a very practical alternative. It would take several paragraphs to cover all the intricacies of NEC testing and standards. The basic one is that, for practical safeguarding from electrical hazards, products must be listed and labeled for the use. Listing means that a third party test laboratory (i.e., UL) has approved the product. To use in a specific location or situation, the product must in addition be ?labeled for the use,? which is part of the listing process. There?s no bypassing these rules.
Your product may be fine for someone to use whom you know and with specific needs. In the case of promoting a product for general and unsupervised use, however, your best bet would be to use the tactic insurance companies do first ? specifically, never take anything on alone. I can think of safer products which accomplish what you?re thinking of. Hubbell makes an ?ergo grip,? and further, their divison Kellems makes cord grips with a nylon basket around the cable, similar to a chinese finger torture toy. The Kellems products you may wish to look at would include cable support, pulling, and deluxe cord grips, but to my knowledge the Kellems products are not intended (legally, listed) for this application. It may be wisest to work with state or federal ADA regulators, as electrical product listings involve fire and consumer product safety concerns as part of design standards. I?m certain that the Hubbell and/or Kellems people would like nothing better than to see their products being used for accessibility, but of course they?re not going to suggest any use other than what is in their listing. If a recognized authority, for example, a state ADA commission, suggests a new use, you?d be in a different league.
Best of luck and hopefully more will chime in with suggestions, observations, etc.
throttlebody
Senior Member
- Location
- Martinsburg, WV
Re: "Plug Puller"
Good question. If they are too weak to pull the cord from the socket, they would unlikely be able to seat it properly too.
Re: "Plug Puller"
I agree with what others have said about the possibility of electric shock due to the contact of the tie wire to a "hot" prong on the plug. I know this is unlikely, but someone could make it happen and hold you responsible. The other problem is that this device keeps the pug from seating completely in the receptacle. As discussed elsewher on the forum, I can just imagine a fire inspector investigating a fire and find one of these devices, or the remains of one of these devices. Suddenly your device caused the fire, whether or not you were really at fault. I think you are on the right track to try to find some device to help in these situations, but liability is too great for there to be a simple solution.
I agree with what others have said about the possibility of electric shock due to the contact of the tie wire to a "hot" prong on the plug. I know this is unlikely, but someone could make it happen and hold you responsible. The other problem is that this device keeps the pug from seating completely in the receptacle. As discussed elsewher on the forum, I can just imagine a fire inspector investigating a fire and find one of these devices, or the remains of one of these devices. Suddenly your device caused the fire, whether or not you were really at fault. I think you are on the right track to try to find some device to help in these situations, but liability is too great for there to be a simple solution.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: "Plug Puller"
MDDs
Great idea, but I think Charlie stated it first...That the prong may not be fully inserted, and I know that UL has standards for that. As well, the prongs may be sticking out as well.
Now take your gallant idea and develop it further. There are many stumbling blocks, financial is one of them... maybe you can convince one of the companies that make molded attachment plugs to use an idea you come up with. Of course the financial rewards would most likely be much less.
You will find that developing ideas may be fairly easy, getting them to market is the hard part.
Good Luck
MDDs
Great idea, but I think Charlie stated it first...That the prong may not be fully inserted, and I know that UL has standards for that. As well, the prongs may be sticking out as well.
Now take your gallant idea and develop it further. There are many stumbling blocks, financial is one of them... maybe you can convince one of the companies that make molded attachment plugs to use an idea you come up with. Of course the financial rewards would most likely be much less.
You will find that developing ideas may be fairly easy, getting them to market is the hard part.
Good Luck
Re: "Plug Puller"
Perhaps you might go to a place that sells replacement cord caps and purchace one.
There is merit in the statement that if a person isn't strong enough to pull a plug out properly, they are likely not able to fully seat it.
Work with your purchased cord cap to make a mock-up with some sort of handle. I would recommend something that looks like the old dual handle grip on mounted .50 cal. browning machine guns.
After you have something that would appear to work, patent the design and take it to the manufacturer of the original cord cap to see about production. Also submit your patented design to UL and get it listed. The manufacturer is then presented with a listed design and would have to pay you royalties to make the device under license to your patent.
you design it, UL lists it, they build it, they pay you for it, it does the job it needs to do, it is safe for all concerned, proper construction and listing provides safety and some insulation from lawsuits.
Just an idea.
Perhaps you might go to a place that sells replacement cord caps and purchace one.
There is merit in the statement that if a person isn't strong enough to pull a plug out properly, they are likely not able to fully seat it.
Work with your purchased cord cap to make a mock-up with some sort of handle. I would recommend something that looks like the old dual handle grip on mounted .50 cal. browning machine guns.
After you have something that would appear to work, patent the design and take it to the manufacturer of the original cord cap to see about production. Also submit your patented design to UL and get it listed. The manufacturer is then presented with a listed design and would have to pay you royalties to make the device under license to your patent.
you design it, UL lists it, they build it, they pay you for it, it does the job it needs to do, it is safe for all concerned, proper construction and listing provides safety and some insulation from lawsuits.
Just an idea.
ty
Senior Member
- Location
- 3rd Rock from the Sun
Re: "Plug Puller"
Is this for real??
It's right up there with the 'floating receptacle'.
Is this for real??
It's right up there with the 'floating receptacle'.
Brian D
Member
- Location
- Mahopac, NY
Re: "Plug Puller"
Install a switched outlet if possible.
Install a switched outlet if possible.
Brian D
Member
- Location
- Mahopac, NY
Re: "Plug Puller"
lol, anyone got a picture of the floating outlet!
lol, anyone got a picture of the floating outlet!
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: "Plug Puller"
I agree. Sometimes the simple solutions elude us, and sometimes they turn out to be the best solutions.
I agree. Sometimes the simple solutions elude us, and sometimes they turn out to be the best solutions.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: "Plug Puller"
Someone posted a picture of one a year or two ago. It was a "homeowner special," an "ain't I brilliant, dear" of the highest (or I should say lowest) order. He had rigged a flexible cord to a metal box with a receptacle in it, put a plug on the other end of the cord, and mounted the metal box on top of one or two (I don't recall) empty plastic bottles. He designed this to allow him to watch TV while floating in a chair in his swimming pool.
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: "Plug Puller"
I think we're getting off the issue here. The issue is not the ability to turn an item on or off, the issue is due the small size and in some cases the receptacle holding strength anyone that struggles with a loss of strength in their hands, not only the disabled, can have a difficult time removing a plug from a receptacle. MDDS is merely trying to come up with a solution for this situation. Some kind of pull-ring or handle on a plug would be nice and plugs could be designed to incorporate them but my understanding is that he is trying to develope a device that could be used on any existing plug. Without seeing the item itself, it seems there have been some assumptions made as to its design and function.
We could all be faced with this challenge in the future when we develop arthritis in our fingers and hands.
It would be interesting to see what mdds comes up with.
Bob
I think we're getting off the issue here. The issue is not the ability to turn an item on or off, the issue is due the small size and in some cases the receptacle holding strength anyone that struggles with a loss of strength in their hands, not only the disabled, can have a difficult time removing a plug from a receptacle. MDDS is merely trying to come up with a solution for this situation. Some kind of pull-ring or handle on a plug would be nice and plugs could be designed to incorporate them but my understanding is that he is trying to develope a device that could be used on any existing plug. Without seeing the item itself, it seems there have been some assumptions made as to its design and function.
We could all be faced with this challenge in the future when we develop arthritis in our fingers and hands.
It would be interesting to see what mdds comes up with.
Bob
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