bulldog
Member
- Location
- New Jersey
I have customer that wants the kitchen outlet under the top cabinets. The height is ok. What I need to know is what is the best way to wire the plugmold and the low voltage ambiance strip lights.
plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
- Thread starter bulldog
- Start date
- Status
ty
Senior Member
- Location
- 3rd Rock from the Sun
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
We install these all of the time. Mount the plugmold with screws.
The Ambience uses double sided tape.
Wiring??
Use NM. Are you going to mount the plugmold to the wall just below the cabinet or directly to the bottom of the cabinet?
Use end feeds on the plugmold if you can. It is impractical to try to use one of the 1/2" ko's on the back of the plugmold strip.
The Ambience wiring can be done numerous ways.
If you locate the transformer(s) in the basement, you're best to use NM in the walls. (the Ambience wire can not be concealed in the wall).
If you locate the transformer above a cabinet, you could run the Ambience wire through the cabinet. Sea Gull makes a snap cover for the wire that you could use inside of the cabinet and under to give it a finished look.
They will want trim on the bottom front edge of the cabinets to help conceal the plugmold and lighting.
We install these all of the time. Mount the plugmold with screws.
The Ambience uses double sided tape.
Wiring??
Use NM. Are you going to mount the plugmold to the wall just below the cabinet or directly to the bottom of the cabinet?
Use end feeds on the plugmold if you can. It is impractical to try to use one of the 1/2" ko's on the back of the plugmold strip.
The Ambience wiring can be done numerous ways.
If you locate the transformer(s) in the basement, you're best to use NM in the walls. (the Ambience wire can not be concealed in the wall).
If you locate the transformer above a cabinet, you could run the Ambience wire through the cabinet. Sea Gull makes a snap cover for the wire that you could use inside of the cabinet and under to give it a finished look.
They will want trim on the bottom front edge of the cabinets to help conceal the plugmold and lighting.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Be sure to run the PlugMold? downstream from a GFCI receptacle or GFCI blankfront (or on a GFCI circuit breaker).
Question: If you end-feed the PlugMold? with NM how does the 6" per conductor rule apply (or not).
Be sure to run the PlugMold? downstream from a GFCI receptacle or GFCI blankfront (or on a GFCI circuit breaker).
Question: If you end-feed the PlugMold? with NM how does the 6" per conductor rule apply (or not).
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Or fit 3 yellow wire nuts in there.
They do make larger end feeds, in this area you will get the small one if you do not ask for the larger one.
Try to do box fill calculations on this "box" :roll:
Or fit 3 yellow wire nuts in there.
They do make larger end feeds, in this area you will get the small one if you do not ask for the larger one.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Noxx,
One definitely has to have a customer that will pay for the time that under cupboard plugmold requires for installation.
Wayne C.
The space required to allow 6" min. conductor comes from careful layout of the outlets in the strip. I find that the end feed provides the space for the conductors to bend out of the connector, especially when entering at 90? to the run of raceway. The 6" length then runs out of the end feed into the plugmold raceway. I like to position the receptacle by the end feed far enough away to permit room for the 6" conductor and I also like to use the Wiremold connectors (which means I have to supply solid conductors). In a pinch, however, wingless wirenuts will squeeze in just fine.
Noxx,
One definitely has to have a customer that will pay for the time that under cupboard plugmold requires for installation.
Wayne C.
The space required to allow 6" min. conductor comes from careful layout of the outlets in the strip. I find that the end feed provides the space for the conductors to bend out of the connector, especially when entering at 90? to the run of raceway. The 6" length then runs out of the end feed into the plugmold raceway. I like to position the receptacle by the end feed far enough away to permit room for the 6" conductor and I also like to use the Wiremold connectors (which means I have to supply solid conductors). In a pinch, however, wingless wirenuts will squeeze in just fine.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Anyway, I just completed a kitchen where the customer insisted on having this plugmold under the cabinets because she had 1 1/4" granite backsplashes installed and didn't want anything cut into the backsplash. Here are some things that I ran into :
1) Make sure you have 1/2" # 8 or # 10 screws with you to secure the Wiremold to the underside of the cabinet. I didn't have them initially and cut sheetrock screws to size. Without a tapered point on the screw you'll blow out the flakeboard and vaneer inside the cabinet. I had to stop and make a trip to the supply house and get the right screws.
2) If you use the junction box that Wiremold has for this type of installation it's too big to hide under the cabinet and defeats the purpose of installing the plugmold under the cabinet. I chose to wire directly into the plugmold but had to channel out a portion of the cabinet to get an Arlington "black button" connector into the plugmold. Once inside the plugmold they make slide-in "quick connectors" for the wire connections. Three connectors will fit perfectly inside the plugmold.
3) The chances of the plugmold matching the color of the cabinets is a long shot. You'll probably have to spray paint the plugmold covers to closely match the cabinet finish. Obviously, cut the plugmold to size before you paint it.
4) If you have the (rare) opportunity to install the plugmold before the base cabinets go in that would be a big plus. If not, you'll have to lay on your back on the countertop to do the work.
Have fun. Hope you're getting the $$$ for this. I didn't and I'll never do it again !!!
Installing undercabinet plugmold is a lot of fun and even more fun when you have to wire it with # 12 AWG.
Anyway, I just completed a kitchen where the customer insisted on having this plugmold under the cabinets because she had 1 1/4" granite backsplashes installed and didn't want anything cut into the backsplash. Here are some things that I ran into :
1) Make sure you have 1/2" # 8 or # 10 screws with you to secure the Wiremold to the underside of the cabinet. I didn't have them initially and cut sheetrock screws to size. Without a tapered point on the screw you'll blow out the flakeboard and vaneer inside the cabinet. I had to stop and make a trip to the supply house and get the right screws.
2) If you use the junction box that Wiremold has for this type of installation it's too big to hide under the cabinet and defeats the purpose of installing the plugmold under the cabinet. I chose to wire directly into the plugmold but had to channel out a portion of the cabinet to get an Arlington "black button" connector into the plugmold. Once inside the plugmold they make slide-in "quick connectors" for the wire connections. Three connectors will fit perfectly inside the plugmold.
3) The chances of the plugmold matching the color of the cabinets is a long shot. You'll probably have to spray paint the plugmold covers to closely match the cabinet finish. Obviously, cut the plugmold to size before you paint it.
4) If you have the (rare) opportunity to install the plugmold before the base cabinets go in that would be a big plus. If not, you'll have to lay on your back on the countertop to do the work.
Have fun. Hope you're getting the $$$ for this. I didn't and I'll never do it again !!!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
If you look at the instructions you will see they show using the push in connectors for hot and neutral but a circle around the ground connection with an arrow to the words "approved grounding connector" It looks like they are using a ground crimp, I use a yellow wire nut.
Plug mold Instruction pdf
In the past 4 days I have installed over 200 feet of plugmold in Comp USA stores.
I agree with noxx, plug mold is the Devil
Before anyone asks how many outlets per circuit, the answer to that is "I do not recall"
[ October 19, 2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Yes these connectors will fit but apparently they are not rated for grounding.
If you look at the instructions you will see they show using the push in connectors for hot and neutral but a circle around the ground connection with an arrow to the words "approved grounding connector" It looks like they are using a ground crimp, I use a yellow wire nut.
Plug mold Instruction pdf
In the past 4 days I have installed over 200 feet of plugmold in Comp USA stores.
I agree with noxx, plug mold is the Devil
Before anyone asks how many outlets per circuit, the answer to that is "I do not recall"
[ October 19, 2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
I get the "Opportunity" to install this stuff occasionally. The kicker is in most kitchens you can put an appliance in front of the receptacles and hide them. Also you can get devices in just about any color you want so matching the backsplash material is usually not a problem.
I get the "Opportunity" to install this stuff occasionally. The kicker is in most kitchens you can put an appliance in front of the receptacles and hide them. Also you can get devices in just about any color you want so matching the backsplash material is usually not a problem.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
PlugMold? installation is terribly primitive in my opinion. It would seem that in the 21st century the WireMold? Company would have figured out some slick ways to install it.
There is enough real estate under an upper cabinet that PlugMold? could position itself to be the installation of choice for receptacles in kitchens.
Is it just me or does the WireMold? Company seem to lack an innovative engineering staff?
PlugMold? installation is terribly primitive in my opinion. It would seem that in the 21st century the WireMold? Company would have figured out some slick ways to install it.
There is enough real estate under an upper cabinet that PlugMold? could position itself to be the installation of choice for receptacles in kitchens.
Is it just me or does the WireMold? Company seem to lack an innovative engineering staff?
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
really, I just can't think of an application for which plugmold is ever the "best" option. It looks unattractive, in it's metal incarnation it's a fault waiting to happen, it's a PITA to install, service, or use....etc.
Cut in some bloody outlets. Surface mount em, aluminum rigid, anodize em for effect, anything but plugmold.
really, I just can't think of an application for which plugmold is ever the "best" option. It looks unattractive, in it's metal incarnation it's a fault waiting to happen, it's a PITA to install, service, or use....etc.
Cut in some bloody outlets. Surface mount em, aluminum rigid, anodize em for effect, anything but plugmold.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
That costs extra, and I'm happy to create ways to do it, and bill for it. The customer is happy to pay for their aesthetic. Win-win.
I submit that the intent is not to use it. The customer has to have it by code, but would rather have a look instead. Most of the places that I have installed "hidden" plugmold are not working kitchens, but rather a display of style.
That costs extra, and I'm happy to create ways to do it, and bill for it. The customer is happy to pay for their aesthetic. Win-win.
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
After reading this post I am thinking that it might make things a lot easier if there is an outlet inside the upper kitchen cabinets. That way the LV transformer can be hidden from view and the wires can be run inside the cabinets to feed the undermount lighting. Of course some kind of raceway would be used to protect the wires. Is it a code violation to install outlets inside kitchen cabinets.
After reading this post I am thinking that it might make things a lot easier if there is an outlet inside the upper kitchen cabinets. That way the LV transformer can be hidden from view and the wires can be run inside the cabinets to feed the undermount lighting. Of course some kind of raceway would be used to protect the wires. Is it a code violation to install outlets inside kitchen cabinets.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
That's the kind of thinking these kitchens tend to require.
Did a 24 x 24 kitchen for an interior decorator who, rather than attempt it herself, hired a designer that only did kitchens and baths. When one walked in from the rest of the house, standing in the doorway to the kitchen, one could not see a single electrical device, save the recessed light trims in the ceiling. One backsplash, the one at the sink, had an 18" high, 20' long triple glaze window that started at the counter surface and ended at the "apparent" bottom edge of the cupboard. The switch for the disposal was in the Wiremold, as well. That particular job used the 2100 series which made it easier to run additional conductors, but still. . .
What I came away with, is that even the cupboard interiors were part of the style area, and I was left with the wall under the sink for j-boxes, and simply ran more wire. I oversized every box that I could to get enough cubes to install the conductors.
The end of that job had us walking around like we were on eggshells for fear of marring the beige, 24 coat, automotive lacquer finish on the cabinets. One of the job's most difficult moments came when the owner/interior designer feared that one of the four beiges in the kitchen didn't co-ordinate with the other three. . .sure paid well, though.
That's the kind of thinking these kitchens tend to require.
Did a 24 x 24 kitchen for an interior decorator who, rather than attempt it herself, hired a designer that only did kitchens and baths. When one walked in from the rest of the house, standing in the doorway to the kitchen, one could not see a single electrical device, save the recessed light trims in the ceiling. One backsplash, the one at the sink, had an 18" high, 20' long triple glaze window that started at the counter surface and ended at the "apparent" bottom edge of the cupboard. The switch for the disposal was in the Wiremold, as well. That particular job used the 2100 series which made it easier to run additional conductors, but still. . .
What I came away with, is that even the cupboard interiors were part of the style area, and I was left with the wall under the sink for j-boxes, and simply ran more wire. I oversized every box that I could to get enough cubes to install the conductors.
The end of that job had us walking around like we were on eggshells for fear of marring the beige, 24 coat, automotive lacquer finish on the cabinets. One of the job's most difficult moments came when the owner/interior designer feared that one of the four beiges in the kitchen didn't co-ordinate with the other three. . .sure paid well, though.
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Iwire, I haven't run wiremold in a while, but I recall it was challenging to get all the parts required, most distributors didn't carry all the little fittings, esp the square plug in wire connecttors.
We did pretty good with wiremold in the baby puke brown, then they come out with a new color...
Iwire, I haven't run wiremold in a while, but I recall it was challenging to get all the parts required, most distributors didn't carry all the little fittings, esp the square plug in wire connecttors.
We did pretty good with wiremold in the baby puke brown, then they come out with a new color...
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Finding the stock is not my problem.
I fax a material requisition form into the purchasing department and the stock shows up at the job, my house or the shop.
The disadvantage is if I forget something I can not stop at supply house and order at the counter, all material must go through purchasing.
That would be one of the advantages in working for a large company.
Finding the stock is not my problem.
I fax a material requisition form into the purchasing department and the stock shows up at the job, my house or the shop.
The disadvantage is if I forget something I can not stop at supply house and order at the counter, all material must go through purchasing.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
I recently bought plugmold at the depot. I asked the guy for the end feed fittings. They don't carry them. :roll: As for the wiremold company, how about spending a little money on engineering. Have they ever tried to install this stuff?
I recently bought plugmold at the depot. I asked the guy for the end feed fittings. They don't carry them. :roll: As for the wiremold company, how about spending a little money on engineering. Have they ever tried to install this stuff?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Look for metal stud screws they are 1/2" and work for all kinds of stuff they have a very sharp point that will go through most thin metal and can be used for securing metal to metal connections at box's when needed.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: plugmold under cabinets/ low voltage lights
Here's there web site:
Wire Mold
And for plug mold:
Wire Mold-Plug Mold
Here's there web site:
Wire Mold
And for plug mold:
Wire Mold-Plug Mold
tsullivanjr
Member
Island with no place to put an outlet
Island with no place to put an outlet
I have an island and the design people told me to put the outlets on the back side of the raised pantry cabinets infront of the cooktop on an island.
I was driving and reliazed this would put an electrical box in the top of the pantry cabinet (not good). I don't even care about the outlet but I am required to have one.
I was thinking of puting plugmold under the granite contertop. I have a 12" inch overhang in most places. I could put it under the granite on the side of the cabinet where even though there is a 12 " overhang in one direction there is only a 1 1/4" overhang on the edge where the cabinet doors are. Is this legal?
Island with no place to put an outlet
I have an island and the design people told me to put the outlets on the back side of the raised pantry cabinets infront of the cooktop on an island.
I was driving and reliazed this would put an electrical box in the top of the pantry cabinet (not good). I don't even care about the outlet but I am required to have one.
I was thinking of puting plugmold under the granite contertop. I have a 12" inch overhang in most places. I could put it under the granite on the side of the cabinet where even though there is a 12 " overhang in one direction there is only a 1 1/4" overhang on the edge where the cabinet doors are. Is this legal?
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