Poco energized the neutral

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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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One of our service tecs helpers was quite surprised friday.He and his lead man were doing service work in an area when a CM came to him to tell him that framers doing punch out were getting shocked.Home still in frame roughed in about 2 weeks ago.Being a conciensious worker he went across the street and before testing he grabbed the #4 ground wire as he kneeled down by the ground rod. WHAM he got lit up.The leadman was walking across the street as this happened and said he looked like a fish flopping on a deck.
The POCO,TECO in this area when underground is done tie in the meter and blank and seal it.Some genious had tied the hot to the neutral lug in the meter. :eek:
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

This is a perfect example of how grounding electrodes do nothing to clear a fault at these voltages.

I hope everyone is OK.
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Great point Bob!

I don't understand how intelligent people can do the same job day in and day out and still make such stupid mistakes. I don't know how their cable is made but ours has the neutral marked with yellow and it is reduced in size. It is impossible . . . UH . . . unlikely for our guys to do that.
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Allen ,that is not the first time TECO did that.Years ago they did same thing to some apartments.Was told they paid about $18,000 for burned up items.In fairness to TECO they have been working some long hours lately with huricane damage.We all get a bit careless sometimes,but i would think part of his job was to varify voltages at meter before he blanked it off.
You didn't say if your man is ok,hope he is.And i would make sure there is a record of this in case he develops any problems.
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Our guys all have Wiggies and are supposed to use them. I would bet that they don't always use the Wiggies.

Is it safe to assume that these guys are all OK?
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

He is a 2 year helper that I bet will never forget that day as long as he lives.as it turned out he is OK.Oh and yes the neutral is marked in the same manner.Just goes to show that we always have to treat all wiring as live even though we know ;) A practice I have used since I cut a D.C. cable assembly years ago in N.Y.C. that was supposed to be unhooked but was all to live.Ever see d.c. explode ???All I had was the handles of a new pair of kleins left
:eek:
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

He will be your safest employee in the future and a great choice for a safety committee. It is unfortunate that experience is such a harsh teacher. Sometimes it is even fatal, I am glad that this time it wasn't. :D
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

We have had this happen here on three phase.

Black/Red/Blue phases w/White neutral.

POCO uses Greenlee phase rotation testers that have Red/White/Blue leads.
So they get some guys that hook up Red/White/Blue as phases and they hook their neutral to our black.
What a mess.

Why would Greenlee use white as a phase lead?
To me, that's as irresponsible as the guy who doesn't check.
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

here the POCO uses red, white, blue as phases - black as a neutral because "that's the way we've alway's done it" If you're a local and know that - fine. If you're an out of towner - good luck! Luckily they provide wire all the way to main disconnect (residential and commercial)
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

"here the POCO uses red, white, blue as phases - black as a neutral because "that's the way we've alway's done it" If you're a local and know that - fine. If you're an out of towner - good luck! Luckily they provide wire all the way to main disconnect"
Just love that kinda attitude :mad:
Why even try to follow what the other side will be because of NEC.
I know utility is exempt
Maybe it's high time they follow some rules before they kill someone.
Just how did they pick white as a hot ?
Just pick any colors you like and hope we match up
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Red, white, blue with black neutral is the old British colo(u)r coding.
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Jim, I think you are off base here. I understand the problem but you have to mark your phasing the way the Code requires it to be marked. Ignore the marking on the electric utility side.

Consider the size of our systems. Can you imagine the confusion if we were to try to change the phase markings system wide? How many of our people would be hurt in the process? Because "that's the way we've alway's done it" is a valid reason to continue to do it that way. That electric utility may very well have picked white before it was required to be identified with white marking for inside wiring.

We do follow some rules, they are called the National Electrical Safety Code. I am sorry you don't follow our rules but you have your own set of rules. Do you think it would make sense to impose our rules on you?

The bottom line is that we are not exempt from standards but we are generally exempt from the NEC rules in favor of the NESC rules. It is difficult to build a pole line or a substation with the NEC as guidance. :D
 
Re: Poco energized the neutral

Had a similar situation years ago on a senior citizen complex. Multiple gang meter pack with outside disconnects had been wired incorrectly by utility company. Energized all the aluminum siding and window frames. I found it when it blew up my radio when plugged into 120V recpt. Utility was notified and I stayed on the job until corrections were made to make sure noboby made contact with the building. Utility company offered to fix my radio for their mistake. Never did get that radio fixed.
 
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