It may be unbelievable, but it's true.
We size by experience and we also get to add in load diversity.
Poco service drop size disagreement 200a residential Upstate NY
- Thread starter newservice
- Start date
We size by experience and we also get to add in load diversity.
winnie
Senior Member
- Location
- Springfield, MA, USA
- Occupation
- Electric motor research
I do think that it is fair to say that if one arm of the utility says 'this service drop should be replaced', and another arm of the utility says 'we're going to leave the existing service drop', that the OP should have some leverage to push the change...
Man, you hit the nail on the head with that statement.
I started as a lineman, went to school late (40) and went into EE.
So I've seen it from both sides.
I’m blown away at some of them. I will admit, engineers tend to go big on some things,
But some lineman will feed 4 houses off a number 4 aluminum triplex and still believe it's ok..
Agree totally. Push the issue.
If the customer has problems down the line inevitably it will be blamed on the electrician first, because they are the easiest targets.
I threatened a utility loss prevention officer with a slander suit after the customer demanded that I pay for the whole house fan that died of under voltage due to voltage drop. The client said that the loss prevention officer for the utility had told her that the loss of her whole house fan and the damage caused by the fire department opening up the ceiling around the fan to search for concealed fire was entirely caused by my failure to install the fan properly. 1st problem he caused is that I had not installed the fan I had only wired the servicing switch and provided a flex pigtail for the Heating Ventilating and Air Conditioning company to use to wire the fan. I opened up the panel cover and pointed to the big green sticker that said my work passed inspection. I then showed her the meter reading at the dryer outlet that was about 15 wire feet from the Service Equipment. We all know that although it is not an enforceable rule the generally accepted practice is to hold voltage drop to 5% or less. Hers was over that by enough to put the nominal 230 volt motor below its lower voltage limit. I don't remember the exact numbers because that was decades ago.
I called the power company loss prevention guy who had fielded her initial complaint and I recorded the call. [You know how you sometimes get a recording that says that says "This call may be recorded for quality control and training purposes" The plain reading of that gives you as the caller permission to record the call for "quality control."] The utility's defense attorney could not even ask me what I thought that means because that would call for a conclusion. The loss prevention officer doubled down and said that I was incompetent and lacked the knowledge necessary to evaluate the effects of the voltage drop on the equipment. I answered "That is slander so you may need to get yourself a personal attorney." I had 62 first cousins and 3 of those are lawyers. One of them stepped up for me and wrote a Nasty Gram to the utility's legal department. She argued successfully at the preliminary hearing that the voice announcement gave me permission to record the call and the back peddling began. My Grandfather was the speaker of the State house of delegates. I asked him to request a Public Service Commission review of the damage and he did. The Public Service Commission ruled that the damage was the fault of the utility for failure to train and supervise their staff in the evaluation of voltage drop on their outside plant's adequacy to deliver service to the State's citizens. The loss prevention person had only made the slanderous statement to 1 person, other than myself, but in my written response to that claim I said that I was entirely dependent on word of mouth advertising and his remarks would deter the customer from making positive remarks about my work. I also wrote that he had damaged my reputation and recklessly harmed me financially. The utility paid me $1,000 dollars for that damage. That would be a little over $8,300 today.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
You should have waited
Yeah this kinda thing is the exactly the reason an EC should always have a paper trial with utilities. the POCO's have legal departments that can go after customers to recover costs of upgrades. The customer is often obligated to notify them writing of the calculated load, then its up to the utility to deliver voltage to ANSI C84 at that load. Voltage drop at the calculated load should be minimal at the service point. Each state's public utility commission probably has different rules but generally speaking they use ANSI C84 or the unofficial C84 'extended' that covers every system and all uncommon voltages.