Point of Service

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jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
At what point does the NEC apply assuming that it is codified?

Reason: Can an inspector enforce overhead clearances and underground depths on private property or is the utility exempt due to their having an easement on the property?

What does the NESC say pertaining to this?

Mike P.

PS from NESC website: "For building utilization wiring requirements, see the National Electrical Code? (NEC?), NFPA 70-1999"

[ January 26, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: jxofaltrds ]
 
Re: Point of Service

I am not sure what you are asking. 230.24 applies to customer owned service drops and the NESC applies to electric utility owned service drops. The division is the location of the service point (see the definition of Service Point). The service point is the division for service laterals as well.

Normally, the courts, not the electrical inspector, enforce the NESC rules for the electric and communication utilities. If someone is hurt or killed, everything is looked at to determine if a rule has been violated. If is has, the utility has some deep pockets and we (IPL) do not like to lose like that. As a result, we try to make sure that everything we do meets the NESC.
 
Re: Point of Service

What I wanted to know is what can be done if:

The utility drop is too low.

Risers are not secure.

Undue stress on the underground conductors.

Underground conductors not at proper depth.

As it stands an ESI has no authority to require these conditions to be fixed.

Do you believe an ESI's authority starts at the point of service or once it enters the property?

Mike P.
 
Re: Point of Service

It depends on the way your local government is set up. The AHJ has no authority over the serving utility in this area but he can report a violation to the utility. It is up to the utility as to whether or not they wish to do anything about the report. In my area, the local AHJ has contacted me and we have taken action.

Indiana has accepted the NESC into law. As a result of that, we require our people to meet of exceed the NESC requirements. If I get a report, I will see to it that the NESC is met.
 
Re: Point of Service

Thanxs Charlie

Other inspectors have told me (second hand info) that the utility told them to pound sand.

I do not know if Ohio has codified the NESC.

Part of my question remains unanswered. I think that the utility is exempt from the NEC until it "hits" the property.

If the electrician hangs the meter and provides the wiring from that point into the home and this work is approved as premises wiring by the AHJ, how can the utility enter the meter can and do any work if this is premises wiring?

I do not see how they can have it both ways. I mean how can they make the homeowner take responsibilty for the meter can and still be able to perform work on "privately" owned property?

Am I making any sense yet?

Mike P.
 
Re: Point of Service

Mike I have asked the same question over and over...Here we do 90 % underground services and when we are done the poco feeds the meter and this is by private Vendors for the most part.I have seen undergoround feeds set that have no straps are crooked KO`s ripped apart but they are fed and metered ???? If we are goverened by the NEC why not them after all we have breakers to prevent things from going really bad.You can arc weld with the poco`s feeders before it gives out.
 
Re: Point of Service

Allen i have seen the same sloppy poco work.And since that meter can is customer installed and owned ,what right do they have to stop us from cutting a seal? Im not suggesting theft but the right to inspect anytime i want.They will never come back to tightened that aluminum.
As to them hooking up there lines lets face it one of us has to touch the others equipment ,over head or under.
 
Re: Point of Service

Jim

As far as touching their equipment we are not allowed.

As far as them touching our equipment no problem. I just want it inspected.

Mike P.
 
Re: Point of Service

If the electrician hangs the meter and provides the wiring from that point into the home and this work is approved as premises wiring by the AHJ, how can the utility enter the meter can and do any work if this is premises wiring?
Click to expand...
I see we have a problem but I do not know how to solve it, I can only tell you how it is done on my system.

If it is an overhead service, the connections for line and load are made by the EC and it may be inspected before it is energized.

If it is an underground service, the connections for the line only are made by us. The load connections are made by the EC and it may be inspected before it is energized.

In all cases, we will permit seals to be broken for inspection or maintenance. We also require the person who breaks the seal to notify us so we can reseal the meter fitting. :D
 
Re: Point of Service

I have posted this before. http://www.yourhomesok.com/050903.jpg

The reason this was open (the box) was because the grading work hit the service and pulled it off of the home.

Notice how shallow the "new cable" is. Entering from the left.

Maybe I should take this to the state and maybe they will start a inspection process.

Mike P.
 
Re: Point of Service

I have personally cut hundreds of seals and poco never said anything untill one of our men was ordered by our boss to remove a meter from a T pole and install it on a townhouse unit over a weekend so they could clean a unit.Yes they caught it and im glad they did.That was flat out wrong.
All that i ever had to do was call them and ask them to please reseal.I am a lot of things but not a thief.
Am curious thow,if i pull that meter(belongs to them )did i just cross that line?

[ January 28, 2004, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Point of Service

If you walk behind the counter at a McDonalds and make change for yourself, does anyone get upset? Are you aware that the meter is our cash register? HMMM . . . :D
 
Re: Point of Service

Charlie

We are allowed to pull the meter with permission.
Why I do it in some cases? $200 for utility to remove and $200 to reinstall plus $25 for another person to attach a new tag. $300 for same day service. Not all utilities do this. With the above exception all my dealings with local utilities has been good.

Yesterday on a service change they waited for me to perform my work before energizing the new drop.
There was a disconnect ahead of where I was working however it was new and had not yet been checked (by me) for proper operation. Safety first.

I have seen may tags cut where I know that no permit was pulled and no notification to the utility was given.

Mike P.
 
Re: Point of Service

If nothing else is gotten from what I say, please understand all electric utilities are different and react differently to their cash register being removed. The meter itself is sealed so we can take a look at that before reinstalling it into the meter fitting. If the meter seal is broken, we will test the meter for accuracy and look for tampering. If the meter seal is intact, the meter will be reinstalled into the meter fitting and a seal installed.

We just want to be notified that the seal has been broken where some electric utilities will come unglued it you touch their seal.

This is my 5th post in this thread, I have said enough on this subject. :D
 
Re: Point of Service

"If you walk behind the counter at a McDonalds and make change for yourself, does anyone get upset? Are you aware that the meter is our cash register? HMMM . . . "
Yes i am and im not opening it.Just moving it out of my way to work and then putting it back.
Now if that meter is getting pulled more than a couple times in every few years then they should be asking what's up.Once in a 5 year old system and given a call,i see no problem.As a service call man we often do not know ahead of time if we will be pulling it.
If theft is found they should and will prosecute
 
Re: Point of Service

Not sure how well that would stand up in court.
Is this there meter can ? or is it customer owned?
If its my property how can you lock me out?
Is theft really that big of a problem ?
Might understand if they made a rule that only EC contractors could cut it.That would or should stop it if done to steal.

[ January 29, 2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: Point of Service

Jim, they could also take the meter (owned by the utility) and cut the drop or lateral loose.

As far as standing up in court, where do you get your legal experience from?

Roger
 
Re: Point of Service

Roger they are a public utility so they can't just say we don't like you so not selling you electric.And all i said is i wonder how it would stand up in court.Didn't say they couldn't win.
Would call this gouging if the electrician in order to repair customers equipment had to wait for poco to cut seal.They never say anything about this to us.Why would a electrician be stupid enough to help steal power for a customer ?
How much money would they get for risking jail?
Ryan : that was the reason i added the word SHOULD i know a few might.
 
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