Poll?

[76nemo]

Honestly, very honestly,... how many of you guys suit up in FULL PPE while in a switchgear room? No matter of what exactly you are doing, do you all fully suit up? Consider this a poll. Regardless of how much confidence you hold in your work, how many of you go the full nine yards regardless of what you are doing in there?

Full suit, or what???????

Me? Full suit, or forget it. Your opinion????

 

[captaincrab55]

IMHO, I don't think it's wise to answer this in the negative on an open forum...

 

[76nemo]

IMHO, I don't think it's wise to answer this in the negative on an open forum...

Fully agree, yet the question remains. What do you mean by negative???

 

[stickboy1375]

not worth the abuse...

 

[76nemo]

not worth the abuse...

ABUSE of what????? Is your life and one simple accident an abuse????

 

[George Stolz]

Consider this a poll.

Nonsense. I just started the poll for you.

IMHO, I don't think it's wise to answer this in the negative on an open forum...

It is anonymous, so people can be honest. Even the mods can't see who votes for what in this one.

 

[stickboy1375]

ABUSE of what????? Is your life and one simple accident an abuse????

Easy tiger...

 

[mdshunk]

I might wear a full suit, but I'd probably take my tie off.

I think I only have one customer that still has live front switchgear anyhow. If it's dead front switchgear, I'm not sure why I'd suit up just to be in the room. It's not like it's going to jump out and bite you if you're in there sitting on a bucket for your morning break.

 

[jim dungar]

What do you mean by full PPE; a moon suit or just the amount the AFIE calculations require?

And why isn't the work being performed a consideration? Sweeping the floor or changing the light bulbs is not the same as working on energized equipment.

 

[quogueelectric]

It depends on the customer

It depends on the customer

If you are working in a powerplant or chemical refinery or any large industrial plant where a safety program is in efect you will be immediately terminated if you do not comply. This means getting fully suited up to tie a 120volt 20amp breaker in a live panel. I have done it in the last few months and it is annoying. Wearing a full body harness to go 1 step on a 6 foot ladder is annoying on a flat roof 25 feet from the edge. I saw pictures of what was left of a painter whose harness got caught in the coupling of a large fan motor. There were body parts everywhere.

 

[LarryFine]

Okay, I voted.

 

[tomP]

This means getting fully suited up to tie a 120volt 20amp breaker in a live panel. I have done it in the last few months and it is annoying.

What is fully suited up for this application?

Wearing a full body harness to go 1 step on a 6 foot ladder is annoying.

This is more than necessary in most cases. Our standard reads over six feet we must use a harness or maintain three point contact with the ladder (two feet and one hand). So if you are planning on doing much work off that ladder better put on a harness.

If you are working in a powerplant or chemical refinery or any large industrial plant where a safety program is in efect you will be immediately terminated if you do not comply.

Now this I understand, however we use a progression system for discipline and the steps and severity of those steps depends on the infraction.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If you are working in a powerplant or chemical refinery or any large industrial plant where a safety program is in efect you will be immediately terminated if you do not comply. This means getting fully suited up to tie a 120volt 20amp breaker in a live panel.

Only if they were too lazy to do an actual arc flash calculation and just applied the worst case to everything. With a real calculation that work would likely only require 8 cal/cm, face shield and voltage rated gloves.
Don

 

[drbond24]

As an engineer, I of course don't do anything but sit at my desk and think grand thoughts. However, I will answer this post on behalf of the maintenance guys and electrical contractors we have working in the building. If they wear steel toes and safety glasses (the minimum for being on the plant floor) then it is a miracle. I have NEVER seen anyone wearing more than that, regardless of what they're doing. If a breaker needs added to anything at all, ranging from a 20 A, 120 V in a small panel up to an 800 A, 480 V in the main switchgear they do it live and with no PPE other than the already mentioned safety glasses and steel toes. If something needs done to the main switchgear that requires getting a little too close to the bus, they come in on a weekend when they can turn it off.

 

[FNCnca]

I wear absolutely everything that is required for each situation.
Majority of the time, that is just E rated steel toe boots, level two pants and long sleeve shirt, safety glasses, E rated hard hat, face shield, and voltage rated gloves. Remove the gloves and the face shield and I am in my everyday work clothes.
Rarely is anything more required than what I have listed, but when it is, I put it on. I like my skin and do not want to give it up.

 

[tomP]

As an engineer, I of course don't do anything but sit at my desk and think grand thoughts. However, I will answer this post on behalf of the maintenance guys and electrical contractors we have working in the building. If they wear steel toes and safety glasses (the minimum for being on the plant floor) then it is a miracle. I have NEVER seen anyone wearing more than that, regardless of what they're doing. If a breaker needs added to anything at all, ranging from a 20 A, 120 V in a small panel up to an 800 A, 480 V in the main switchgear they do it live and with no PPE other than the already mentioned safety glasses and steel toes. If something needs done to the main switchgear that requires getting a little too close to the bus, they come in on a weekend when they can turn it off.

Several questions for management come to mind.
Have they done any arc flash calculations?
Do they have any safety rules governing hot work?
Do they instruct the proper methods of work?
Do they care about the employees that work for them?
Your company has no safety program at all?

If an accident happens just see what OSHA and the lawyers determine is fair for not caring.

I wear absolutely everything that is required for each situation.
Majority of the time, that is just E rated steel toe boots, level two pants and long sleeve shirt, safety glasses, E rated hard hat, face shield, and voltage rated gloves. Remove the gloves and the face shield and I am in my everyday work clothes.
Rarely is anything more required than what I have listed, but when it is, I put it on. I like my skin and do not want to give it up.

I would like to think that all of our people do this, however the reality is it depends on the person. Most do but some cut corners.
How do you get the idea "that can't happen to me" out of their minds?

 

[FNCnca]

How do you get the idea "that can't happen to me" out of their minds?

The sad fact is, for some, the only way to change their minds, is for it to happen to them.

In my facility, my guys can gripe all they want, but they will wear all the required PPE, or they will not be electricians here, and they know it.
A couple of years back, I had a real good troubleshooter, who had been doing this work for a long time (a lot longer than me). He refused to wear PPE, when I was not around. Came in late one night and found him working HOT (violation #1) with out any PPE on (violation #2). The next day he was transfered to a production department. He had been warned many times, this was the final straw.

 

[drbond24]

Several questions for management come to mind.
Have they done any arc flash calculations?
Do they have any safety rules governing hot work?
Do they instruct the proper methods of work?
Do they care about the employees that work for them?
Your company has no safety program at all?

If an accident happens just see what OSHA and the lawyers determine is fair for not caring.

No arc flash calcs. They've talked about it, but haven't done it.
No documented electrical safety rules at all.
No formal instruction at all.
In word, yes. In deed, no.
We have a safety program, but it doesn't cover electrical. It is mostly stuff like "Don't smoke near the propane fueled towmotors" and "Bend your knees when you pick something up off the floor." We have a monthly safety meeting where everyone is reminded to wear their safety glasses and clean up their work area. That's pretty much it.

The sad fact is, for some, the only way to change their minds, is for it to happen to them.

I agree.

In my facility, my guys can gripe all they want, but they will wear all the required PPE, or they will not be electricians here, and they know it.
A couple of years back, I had a real good troubleshooter, who had been doing this work for a long time (a lot longer than me). He refused to wear PPE, when I was not around. Came in late one night and found him working HOT (violation #1) with out any PPE on (violation #2). The next day he was transfered to a production department. He had been warned many times, this was the final straw.

That's how it should be.

 

[quogueelectric]

suited up

suited up

What is fully suited up for this application?





This is more than necessary in most cases. Our standard reads over six feet we must use a harness or maintain three point contact with the ladder (two feet and one hand). So if you are planning on doing much work off that ladder better put on a harness.





Now this I understand, however we use a progression system for discipline and the steps and severity of those steps depends on the infraction.

Suited up.... means for PSEG Full nomex jumpsuit faceshield rubber gloves with keepers and steel toes and hardhat and ear protection. The 1 step up on the ladder was in the middle of a FLAT roof with the edges at least 20 feet away Just to tie in a couple of air conditioner wires I had to go half the way around the plant to get a harness and nothing to clip on to absolutely rediculous. I did what I was told but I didnt have to like it it did not make me any safer by any means.

 

[76nemo]

What do you mean by full PPE; a moon suit or just the amount the AFIE calculations require?

And why isn't the work being performed a consideration? Sweeping the floor or changing the light bulbs is not the same as working on energized equipment.

Sorry, I meant work on the switchgear itself, maintenance, etc.. Just interested in how far most of you go safety wise compared to the very high risks alot of us overlook. I just find it interesting in how many people run the risks. I've seen many, many of photos with guys just wearing glasses and a t-shirt. I'll leave my opinion on that scenario alone.