Pool bonding grid

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rcarroll

rcarroll

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Fort Collins, Colorado
Gotta pool, all vinyl except for 2" of what they call pool crete on the dirt. Vinyl will cover the crete as well. It's inground. There is no rebar. I think there is 1 wet niche fixture. Will the EC have to install a #8 cu bonding grid under the pool & around the concrete deck? We are on the 05 code. Thanks for your help. Ron
 
Ron
There is a substantial change in bonding of pools that are nonmetallic. Check 680.26(C). If there is a paver type surface around the pool, you may be in for a surprise. Also I would check to see if there are any local codes that may change any of the Equipotential bonding requirements of the '05 NEC.
 
Ron, after re-reading 680-26c as Pierre suggested, I think the short answer to your question is yes, the EC will have to install the eq. grounding grid.
 
I know this sounds lame but check with the AHJ. Ours threw out most of the new bonding requirements concerning the construction of a grid for non-metallic pools. We are required to bond all metal and our wall footings, and the usual stuff, but that's it. We don't have to install metal just to bond it.
 
Definitely check with AHJ. Massachusetts deleted the equipotential grid requirement.
 
Poolboy
As I mentioned, look for local codes that may alter what the NEC requires. Be careful though... there are inspectors that do not always follow the code, that does not take you off the hook. It has to be in writing from the Authority Having Jurisdiction, not from a rogue inspector who does not agree with what is written.
 
Thank you for your help. I knew there was a change & I was trying to figure out if it applied to a vinyl pool. BTW I'm in the same office as the AHJ & to be honest with you, I'd rather ask you folks. Have a great holiday & many thanks to the vets in this country. Ron
 
There is a TIA amendment that came out from the NFPA on NFPA 70. TIA #05-2 gives an exception to pools made from nonconductive material. You may want to check this out.
 
wireman3736 said:
There is a TIA amendment that came out from the NFPA on NFPA 70. TIA #05-2 gives an exception to pools made from nonconductive material. You may want to check this out.
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Ohio never recognizes TIAs but 680.26(C) is so screwed up that Ohio added the TIA into the state building code. I don't know if they added it word for word because we still haven't seen the new building code section. But I know the requirement to add a grid under a nonmetalic inground is gone.

The three foot bonding of the paved area around the pool is still required.

David
 
TIAs do not change the current code. They are put in place so that at the next code cycle, they automatically become a proposal.
You should not use the TIA as a code reference, because it is not one. The code making process is a consensus process, and the TIA has not been through that process, hence it is not a code change.

This means you are still (until the next code cycle) responsible to follow the NEC as you see presently written in your book.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
TIAs do not change the current code. They are put in place so that at the next code cycle, they automatically become a proposal.
You should not use the TIA as a code reference, because it is not one. The code making process is a consensus process, and the TIA has not been through that process, hence it is not a code change.

This means you are still (until the next code cycle) responsible to follow the NEC as you see presently written in your book.
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If "your book" is referring to the NEC, that is not always true. Different municipalities sometimes adopt TIAs.

How many states are on the 2005 NEC with no exception, No additions, no deletions?:neutral:
 
Pierre,
TIAs do not change the current code. They are put in place so that at the next code cycle, they automatically become a proposal.
You should not use the TIA as a code reference, because it is not one.
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I don't agree. The TIA is code from the time it is issued and remains such until the next edition of the code is published.
Tentative Interim Amendments (TIAs) are amendments to an NFPA document processed in accordance with Section 5 of the Regulations Governing Committee Projects. They have not gone through the entire codes and standards-making process of being published in a ROP and ROC for review and comment. TIAs are effective only between editions of the Document. A TIA automatically becomes a proposal of the proponent for the next edition of the Document, as such it then is subject to all of the procedures of the codes and standards making process.
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Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Pierre,

I don't agree. The TIA is code from the time it is issued and remains such until the next edition of the code is published.


Don
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Technically nothing is code until the individual state adopts it. The NFPA has no legal authority itself. As I meantioned before, Ohio never recognizes NFPA TIAs. All the state (or local gov) has to do is ignore the TIA and it is meaningless in that state. It could be used as an expert standard in a liability court case, but otherwise it's meaningless unless adopted by the state or local gov.

David
 
The TIA does change the NFPA 70 code, what states do are there choice, they can adopt all, part or not even adopt any of the NFPA 70, The TIA in itself the way I interpit it makes an amendment to the national code for the current cycle.
 
wireman3736 said:
The TIA does change the NFPA 70 code, what states do are there choice, they can adopt all, part or not even adopt any of the NFPA 70, The TIA in itself the way I interpit it makes an amendment to the national code for the current cycle.
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If it is a national code; why do the states have a choice?:confused:
 
Because the federal government has no enumerated authority to enforce building codes onto the states. See the 9th (or is it 10th) amendment of the US Constitution. Calling it the National ... Code is how the writers were hoping it would be adopted. Some places have no building codes what so ever.
 
David,
All the state (or local gov) has to do is ignore the TIA and it is meaningless in that state.
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I don't agree that is true in the cases where the govenmental unit has adopted the NEC by reference ( I think this is the most common method of adoption). If the NEC has been adopted by reference, then the TIA is part of the code unless the govenmental unit has specifically deleted the TIA.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
David,

I don't agree that is true in the cases where the govenmental unit has adopted the NEC by reference ( I think this is the most common method of adoption). If the NEC has been adopted by reference, then the TIA is part of the code unless the govenmental unit has specifically deleted the TIA.
Don
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I agree with you on this Don.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
David,

I don't agree that is true in the cases where the govenmental unit has adopted the NEC by reference ( I think this is the most common method of adoption). If the NEC has been adopted by reference, then the TIA is part of the code unless the govenmental unit has specifically deleted the TIA.
Don
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I have heard it said in a number of building meetings and conferences that Ohio doesn't recognize TIAs. I'm not sure what exactly that means. I don't know what wording they use to adopt the NEC and how they word their rejection of all TIAs.

We were told that the 680.26 TIA was not adopted either. Instead it's wording was included in the latest Ohio Building Code but we still haven't seen it.

David
 
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