Pool bonding question

[electrofelon]

Hey guys, got a pool question. Really don't do anything associated with pools much . SWIM (someone who isn't me) has one of those above ground round pools that consists of a circular metal enclosure with a vinyl liner. Just wanted to go over the bonding requirements. If the metal frame is all continuous and does not consist of isolated sections, is there any grounding or bonding requirement for the frame? Also how is the 680.26(C) requirement usually met? With a metallic fitting on the pump piping?

 

[kwired]

I did one of those last year. I too don't do anything associated with pools much.

Mine had non conductive decking built around the entire pool. Careful reading of 680.26(B)(1) seems to indicate a vinyl or fiberglass composite liner is treated as a non conductive shell. And since the metal portion of the shell is behind the non conductive deck, I don't believe it necessarily needs bonding. I bonded it several times around the perimeter anyway. Pool guys seemed to think it needed to be bonded and I figured it certainly won't hurt anything.

I did not specifically make a bond for pool water, though I kind of figured the pool heater naturally did accomplish this. Pool guys seemed reasonably knowledgeable about requirements and that is one thing they never did bring up. They did go into detail about bonding other items that needed bonding like the pump, pool cover, etc. and did know that the bonding conductor did not need to extend to the panel without needing to prompt them about most of these things.

 

[CoolWill]

There is a water bonding fitting placed in the pool plumbing near the pump on the pools I've done. It has a #6 copper tail for you to buy on to the wire coming from the pool to the motor.

 

[electrofelon]

Mine had non conductive decking built around the entire pool. Careful reading of 680.26(B)(1) seems to indicate a vinyl or fiberglass composite liner is treated as a non conductive shell. And since the metal portion of the shell is behind the non conductive deck, I don't believe it necessarily needs bonding..

Looking over the code Again, it seems like (B)(1) would apply, but would not (B)(3) still apply? If that is the case, then in this situation I see three things that need to be bonded together: the pool structure, the pump motor, and the water.

 

[Little Bill]

There is a water bonding fitting placed in the pool plumbing near the pump on the pools I've done. It has a #6 copper tail for you to buy on to the wire coming from the pool to the motor.

I use those and they call them "lollypops" because it's shaped like a lollypop. Has a round brass part with a copper tail. You put it in the fitting, which I believe is a drain, with the tail sticking out. They send a fitting with it to replace the existing fitting.

 

[kwired]

Looking over the code Again, it seems like (B)(1) would apply, but would not (B)(3) still apply? If that is the case, then in this situation I see three things that need to be bonded together: the pool structure, the pump motor, and the water.

Somehow I missed (B)(3) when I posted earlier but yes I think it would apply. Next question is do you only need to bond at one location? I bonded the one I did at several locations around the entire perimeter of the pool. Might been overkill but thought it was an OK idea.

 

[Little Bill]

Somehow I missed (B)(3) when I posted earlier but yes I think it would apply. Next question is do you only need to bond at one location? I bonded the one I did at several locations around the entire perimeter of the pool. Might been overkill but thought it was an OK idea.

If the shell needs bonding, then it's 4 points, equally spaced around the perimeter.

 

[electrofelon]

If the shell needs bonding, then it's 4 points, equally spaced around the perimeter.

The 4 points is covered in "perimeter surfaces", 680.26(B)(2). I am not sure the pool structure is covered under this section, however The wording and lack of definitions here is just awful. I still am not clear what they are trying to say. Yet again, super disappointed with this horrible document.

 

[Greentagger]

All metal parts of structure or framework of pool required to be bonded per 680.26(B)(3).
Water to be bonded per 680.26(C).
Deck or perimeter around pool to be bonded per 680.26(B)(2).
Pool pump to be bonded per 680.26(B)(6).

 

[Little Bill]

The 4 points is covered in "perimeter surfaces", 680.26(B)(2). I am not sure the pool structure is covered under this section, however The wording and lack of definitions here is just awful. I still am not clear what they are trying to say. Yet again, super disappointed with this horrible document.

The 4 points is talking about the structure of the pool. Thus the "equally spaced" around the perimeter of the pool structure.

 

[electrofelon]

The 4 points is talking about the structure of the pool. Thus the "equally spaced" around the perimeter of the pool structure.

Seems to me that is talking about a separate surface/structure than the pool structure. Note it mentions when the perimeter surfaces is separated from the pool by a wall. But then they throw this in at the end "For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.". As is typical and prevalent in the NEC, The wording is just garbage .

 

[Little Bill]

Seems to me that is talking about a separate surface/structure than the pool structure. Note it mentions when the perimeter surfaces is separated from the pool by a wall. But then they throw this in at the end "For nonconductive pool shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.". As is typical and prevalent in the NEC, The wording is just garbage .

It's talking about either re-enforced steel (rebar), copper grid, or the alternate means (#8 encircling the pool) attaching to the perimeter surface of the pool at 4 equally spaced points. That's the outside of the shell/structure, perimeter meaning all the way around.

Bonding to
perimeter surfaces shall be provided as specified in
680.26(B)(2)(a) or (2)(b) and shall be attached to the pool
reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of
four (4) points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of the
pool.
(a) Structural Reinforcing Steel. Structural reinforcing steel
shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(a).
(b) Alternate Means. Where structural reinforcing steel is
not available or is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound,
a copper conductor(s) shall be utilized where the following
requirements are met:
(1) At least one minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductor
shall be provided.
(2) The conductors shall follow the contour of the perimeter
surface.
(3) Only listed splices shall be permitted.
(4) The required conductor shall be 450 mm to 600 mm
(18 in. to 24 in.) from the inside walls of the pool.
(5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under
the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.)
below the subgrade.

 

[electrofelon]

It's talking about either re-enforced steel (rebar), copper grid, or the alternate means (#8 encircling the pool) attaching to the perimeter surface of the pool at 4 equally spaced points. That's the outside of the shell/structure, perimeter meaning all the way around.

Bonding to
perimeter surfaces shall be provided as specified in
680.26(B)(2)(a) or (2)(b) and shall be attached to the pool
reinforcing steel or copper conductor grid at a minimum of
four (4) points uniformly spaced around the perimeter of the
pool.
(a) Structural Reinforcing Steel. Structural reinforcing steel
shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B)(1)(a).
(b) Alternate Means. Where structural reinforcing steel is
not available or is encapsulated in a nonconductive compound,
a copper conductor(s) shall be utilized where the following
requirements are met:
(1) At least one minimum 8 AWG bare solid copper conductor
shall be provided.
(2) The conductors shall follow the contour of the perimeter
surface.
(3) Only listed splices shall be permitted.
(4) The required conductor shall be 450 mm to 600 mm
(18 in. to 24 in.) from the inside walls of the pool.
(5) The required conductor shall be secured within or under
the perimeter surface 100 mm to 150 mm (4 in. to 6 in.)
below the subgrade.

Read it again carefully. (B)(2) is referring to a masonry structure or surface , or something like gravel or pavers and bonding THAT to the pool shell. The pool structure/shell is covered by (1) and (3).

 

[Little Bill]

Read it again carefully. (B)(2) is referring to a masonry structure or surface , or something like gravel or pavers and bonding THAT to the pool shell. The pool structure/shell is covered by (1) and (3).

That is referring to the ground, which may be just dirt, grass, pavers, etc. UNDER which the grid or alternate means is located. You bond the grid to the pool at 4 points. I don't see the problem understanding this. Perimeter surface just means the area (ground) around the pool.

 

[electrofelon]

That is referring to the ground, which may be just dirt, grass, pavers, etc. UNDER which the grid or alternate means is located. You bond the grid to the pool at 4 points. I don't see the problem understanding this. Perimeter surface just means the area (ground) around the pool.

Ok but I would argue the pool being discussed does not have a conductive pool shell. So it appears the perimeter surface bonding wire is still required to be installed but not connected to the pool structure since the perimeter bond is connected to a 26(B)(1) item and I see not reference to (3). Not sure if that is the intent but that is what it says.

 

[Little Bill]

Ok but I would argue the pool being discussed does not have a conductive pool shell. So it appears the perimeter surface bonding wire is still required to be installed but not connected to the pool structure since the perimeter bond is connected to a 26(B)(1) item and I see not reference to (3). Not sure if that is the intent but that is what it says.

Yes, the perimeter grid, or alternate means, is still required. There has to be something for the water, pump, and other possible items to bond to.

 

[electrofelon]

Yes, the perimeter grid, or alternate means, is still required. There has to be something for the water, pump, and other possible items to bond to.

Okay, so do you agree the four point thing to the pool structure is not required in my case? I mean I guess it's easy enough to do, if you are running a wire around the pool anyway you could just grab it on as you go, but I'm not seeing that as required.

 

[Little Bill]

Okay, so do you agree the four point thing to the pool structure is not required in my case? I mean I guess it's easy enough to do, if you are running a wire around the pool anyway you could just grab it on as you go, but I'm not seeing that as required.

If it's a nonconductive shell, then no bonding required to it.

 

[electrofelon]

If it's a nonconductive shell, then no bonding required to it.

It seems it has a conductive frame, but a nonconductive shell.

 

[Fred B]

It seems it has a conductive frame, but a nonconductive shell.

Can the conductive frame be touched by anyone post install? Usually I would see a metal top rim edge that the metal framing connects up to. If yes I would bond. Added safety minimal added cost. Newer code than the 17 has clarified and limited what some are calling a storable pool and the non-bonding of it. Some had considered the above ground pool as a storable because it can be dismantled and are drained down for winter, but 23 seemed to clear that up.