Pool equipment fed from a sub-panel violation?

[prattz99]

I was at a residential job the other day and someone told me that feeding the Jandy (or whatever pool automation system with breaker slots) from a sub-panel was a violation and that it needs to come from the main panel back at the house. I looked over 680 and didn't see such a requirement.
Is it a violation to feed a Jandy from a sub-panel? I don't think it is and haven't seen evidence for it to be.

 

[brantmacga]

There used to be an exception that allowed you to install pool equipment to a sub-panel with a 3-wire feeder, but that wording has been removed from the 2017, and states feeders must comply with Chapter 3.

So there is nothing that prohibits you from feeding it from a sub-panel, but with the exception removed, I’d say your sub-panel feeder must meet the current requirements.


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[infinity]

Around here pools are almost always fed from a sub-panel adjacent to the pool equipment. If your equipment is in a separate structure then the sub-panel may actually be required.

 

[brantmacga]

Around here pools are almost always fed from a sub-panel adjacent to the pool equipment. If your equipment is in a separate structure then the sub-panel may actually be required.

I think he was asking about feeding the pool equipment sub-panel from an existing sub-panel.


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[infinity]

I think he was asking about feeding the pool equipment sub-panel from an existing sub-panel.

Would that matter?

 

[brantmacga]

Would that matter?

That was the OP’s question. Someone told him it was a violation.


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[Craigv]

NEC doesn't recognize the term "subpanel", and prohibiting a pool circuit from being supplied by anything but Service Equipment wouldn't fly, as an installation with Service Equipment consisting of only a disconnecting means and the service overcurrent protection would make the "main" panelboard a "subpanel" (4-wire feeder and unbonded grounded bus). It would also effectively make it impossible or unbelievably inconvenient to have a separate pool service structure.

I think brantmacga is on the right track with the closest requirement being the necessity to follow all Chapter 3 wiring methods, so 3-wire feeders would have to be updated.

 

[kwired]

I think brantmacga is on the right track with the closest requirement being the necessity to follow all Chapter 3 wiring methods, so 3-wire feeders would have to be updated.

I kind of have a feeling that is where OP's information is originating from as well - old feeders to separate building that didn't require separate EGC being taken to mean all feeders.

FWIW pools in large hotels/resorts are likely not supplied directly from service equipment, and may have multiple feeders between them and the service equipment.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

IMO, the earlier NEC required feeders for pools to be from the main service panel unless it was an existing panel. I suppose it could be from a remote panel if the panel feeders were run in the methods described below. We have argued this before so some may say that I am wrong but that is how it looks to me.

2017 NEC

680.25 Feeders. These provisions shall apply to any feeder on
the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits for
pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on the
load side of the service equipment or the source of a separately
derived system.
(A) Feeders. Where feeders are installed in corrosive environments
as described in 680.14, the wiring method of that
portion of the feeder shall be as required in 680.14(B) or shall
be liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit. Wiring methods
installed in corrosive environments as described in 680.14 shall
contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor
sized in accordance with Table 250.122, but not smaller than
12 AWG.
Where installed in noncorrosive environments, feeders shall
comply with the general requirements in Chapter 3.

2011 Nec

680.25 Feeders. These provisions shall apply to any feeder
on the supply side of panelboards supplying branch circuits
for pool equipment covered in Part II of this article and on
the load side of the service equipment or the source of a
separately derived system.
(A) Wiring Methods.

(A) Wiring Methods.
(1) Feeders. Feeders shall be installed in rigid metal conduit
or intermediate metal conduit. The following wiring methods
shall be permitted if not subject to physical damage:
(1) Liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit
(2) Rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit
(3) Reinforced thermosetting resin conduit
(4) Electrical metallic tubing where installed on or within a
building
(5) Electrical nonmetallic tubing where installed within a
building
(6) Type MC cable where installed within a building and if
not subject to corrosive environment
Exception: An existing feeder between an existing remote
panelboard and service equipment shall be permitted to run
in flexible metal conduit or an approved cable assembly
that includes an equipment grounding conductor within its
outer sheath. The equipment grounding conductor shall
comply with 250.24(A)(5).

 

[RICK NAPIER]

NEC doesn't recognize the term "subpanel", and prohibiting a pool circuit from being supplied by anything but Service Equipment wouldn't fly, as an installation with Service Equipment consisting of only a disconnecting means and the service overcurrent protection would make the "main" panelboard a "subpanel" (4-wire feeder and unbonded grounded bus). It would also effectively make it impossible or unbelievably inconvenient to have a separate pool service structure.

I think brantmacga is on the right track with the closest requirement being the necessity to follow all Chapter 3 wiring methods, so 3-wire feeders would have to be updated.

Subpanel is mentioned once in the definition for INDUSTRIAL CONTROL PANEL.

 

[kwired]

Subpanel is mentioned once in the definition for INDUSTRIAL CONTROL PANEL.

And has an entirely different meaning in that application than what this thread is about. When you look in those industrial enclosure catalogs, the "back panel" or other component mounting surfaces that go inside the enclosure are usually called "subpanels".