Pool Equipment on three wire feeder

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meandenno1

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I have done work for a small complex with a pool and clubhouse. I recently was called for a lighting issue adjacent to the pool equipment and discovered an issue that would make the metal panel electrically "hot" when the lighting circuit was energized. The pool niche ground was carrying 120 volts to the pool water. I immediately had the maintenance manager close the pool and lock the pool feeder disconnect open. I discussed the issues with upgrading the pool equipment feeder to 4 wires with an insulated dedicated ground conductor. They decided to get their pool maintenance company to look at it. That company put in a new pool light transformer and re-opened the pool. In My opinion this is a death trap....any opinions?
 
You need to get the town to shut it down. This happen in Raleigh, NC about 3 or 4 years ago. A lifeguard's first day working at the pool ending about 15 minutes after she started. A very sad story and big enough that ec&m covered it
 
I agree . I would be curious to what issue you found "that would make the metal panel electrically "hot" when the lighting circuit was energized. The pool niche ground was carrying 120 volts to the pool water".
Couldn't you have disconnected it then ?
 
It’s possible that the pool company corrected the problem with their repair. But you aren’t going to be able to verify that just based on what you’re being told.
 
meandenno1 said:
I have done work for a small complex with a pool and clubhouse. I recently was called for a lighting issue adjacent to the pool equipment and discovered an issue that would make the metal panel electrically "hot" when the lighting circuit was energized. The pool niche ground was carrying 120 volts to the pool water. I immediately had the maintenance manager close the pool and lock the pool feeder disconnect open. I discussed the issues with upgrading the pool equipment feeder to 4 wires with an insulated dedicated ground conductor. They decided to get their pool maintenance company to look at it. That company put in a new pool light transformer and re-opened the pool. In My opinion this is a death trap....any opinions?
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Wow pool lighting transformers almost never fail with 120v on the secondary. The specs are so stringent. There's a barrier between the primary and secondary coils.

Running a dedicated ground is the right thing to do.

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Also make sure everything metal around the pool and touching the water is bonded to that ground.

Also put the transformer on a GFCI circuit.

People don't typically get electrocuted in pools. What happens is they swim through a voltage gradient and it can be a tiny amount of current they causes them to cease up and they drown.

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If you any work on this pool you could be liable for any future issue even if you corrected a code violation. Might be best to. decline and document your recommendations
 
Buck Parrish said:
I agree . I would be curious to what issue you found "that would make the metal panel electrically "hot" when the lighting circuit was energized. The pool niche ground was carrying 120 volts to the pool water".
Couldn't you have disconnected it then ?
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The ground was being carried by a 50 year old metal conduit. A low current ground fault would not swing the touch voltage but a direct short would energize the metal parts. I shut the pool down immediately. I feel that a new raceway must be installed with four insulated conductors, one being a dedicated ground. because the ground fault is only apparent at high fault currents, I feel that the various bonded parts are holding the voltages to a lower touch voltage waiting for that inevitable short that will be lethal to anyone toughing metal while in the pool. I recommended some bigger companies that could excavate and install a correct feeder and replace all the bonding and equipotential grid to code. This is a commercial pool and no short cuts should be allowed. I spoke to the maintenance director and they have scheduled some estimates. Unfortunately the lighting circuit has been disconnected but they are still allowing swimmers during the day....I protested but I am not the owner.
 
tom baker said:
Mike Holt said he would not swim in a pool with 120 v underwater lights
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The lights are 12 volt but if the ground was carrying current from a short and the ground was not solid it would eventually seek ground through any available conductor like the metal rim, the water and a human body. The deteriorated panel was not capable of carrying a solid bond
 
meandenno1 said:
The ground was being carried by a 50 year old metal conduit. A low current ground fault would not swing the touch voltage but a direct short would energize the metal parts. I shut the pool down immediately. I feel that a new raceway must be installed with four insulated conductors, one being a dedicated ground. because the ground fault is only apparent at high fault currents, I feel that the various bonded parts are holding the voltages to a lower touch voltage waiting for that inevitable short that will be lethal to anyone toughing metal while in the pool. I recommended some bigger companies that could excavate and install a correct feeder and replace all the bonding and equipotential grid to code. This is a commercial pool and no short cuts should be allowed. I spoke to the maintenance director and they have scheduled some estimates. Unfortunately the lighting circuit has been disconnected but they are still allowing swimmers during the day....I protested but I am not the owner.
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Yeah. I have to agree totally. It's too severe of a risk to do anything less. Absolutely. Call whoever you have to to compel them to do it. Call the electrical inspector, the mayor, the governor, heck the president if you have to!

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I thought most areas had annual inspections of commercial swimming pools.

I went to a pool similar to what you have described . It looked sort of like that one in the movie 'Free Willy' . It was at a motel. The electric panel was in the pool room with no cover. It was "eat up" For those of you in Rio Linda that means 'corroded really bad'. I told him he needed a complete new pool. Then I ran from that place , quick
 
tom baker said:
If you any work on this pool you could be liable for any future issue even if you corrected a code violation. Might be best to. decline and document your recommendations
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I agree.... I have already declined any work on this pool and associated circuits. My fear is that a less than thorough electrician might not follow this ground fault to it source. I told the management to have the entire power system brought up to code, including adding a properly bonded equipotential plane.
 
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