Pool lighting

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eds

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Picked up a print for a pool today alot of low voltage step lights around the pool, well lights for stone columns and some LED strand lighting around some plant ledges. 411.4(B) reads that no low voltage fixture closer than 10' unless allowed in 680. Article 680.22(B)(4) allows fixtures between 5' and 10' if gfi protected, so in this case 680 would over ride 411. There is also some thought about using fiber optic lighting, are the strands normally installed in conduit from the light source to the lighting area. In this case from the pool mechanical room to the lip around some planters.
 
eds said:
Picked up a print for a pool today alot of low voltage step lights around the pool, well lights for stone columns and some LED strand lighting around some plant ledges. 411.4(B) reads that no low voltage fixture closer than 10' unless allowed in 680. Article 680.22(B)(4) allows fixtures between 5' and 10' if gfi protected, so in this case 680 would over ride 411.
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its impossible to gfci protect low voltage lighting due to the transformer. So IMO 411 will not allow LV lighting within 10' of a pool.
 
That is a good point I am now wondering about some LED step lights that require 120v brought to the fixture and then ther is a electronic LED driver that is class 2
 
I know that magazine pictures don't always show code rules, but I recently saw some pictures of what looked like LED lighting around the pool edge
 
In my experience of pool wiring, the issue of the planter lights come up all the time. The various cities here in SoCal have their own interpretations- some say as long as they are no closer than 5' and then some stick with 411 and say no closer than 10'.

There's nothing that would prohibit the use of line voltage fixtures- then you could GFI protect them and it would be compliant so long as they are 5' from the water's edge.

Or use LV fixtures listed for use in swimming pools with a listed swimming pool transformer for the landscape lights.

The safest bet IS the fiber optic lighting, but it is also more expensive and less efficacious as a light source than the low voltage and/or LED lighting.

- Greg
 
I thought that the pool and spa rated x-former only applied to underwater fixtures. The fiber optic strands when run under ground or through poured concrete are they normaly put in conduit, is it possible to pull thru the conduit after the rough.
 
eds said:
I thought that the pool and spa rated x-former only applied to underwater fixtures. The fiber optic strands when run under ground or through poured concrete are they normaly put in conduit, is it possible to pull thru the conduit after the rough.
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yes you need to run conduit for the fiber-optic cable. you have to install a threaded coupling in the pool shell also for the head to screw into. it comes with the fiber optic setup. you run the conduit into the fiber optic pedestal, which can be installed as near as 5' of the pool wall. the fiber optic cable comes in specific lengths, so make sure the manufacturer you choose makes a cable long enough to go to your pool mechanical room if that's where you plan on installing the pedestals.
 
I agree with stickboy,.. I found an ROP http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/ROP/NEC2008Article410-501.pdf
Which says in part,..(it is very long and is interesting ,..at least it is to me)



..... Problem/Substantiation 4 - Distance of Lighting Systems from Pools, Spas,
Fountains, and Similar Locations - 411.4(B) requires low voltage lighting
systems to be located not less than 3.0 m (10 ft) from pools, spas, fountains,
and similar locations “unless permitted by Article 680.” 680.22(B), 680.40, and
680.43(B) identify installation characteristics for luminaires near or above a
permanent swimming pool, spa and hot tub. Parts I, III, and IV of Article 680
do not identify the minimum distance between a luminaire and a storable pool
or fountain. This results in low voltage lighting systems being required to be
installed not less than 3.0 m (10 ft) or more from a storable pool or fountain, as
specified in 411.4(B).
People want low voltage landscape lighting systems located less than 3.0 m
(10 ft) from a storable pool or fountain and there is no provision for locating
the lighting system as near as 1.5 m (5 ft) of a storable pool or fountain like
there is for permanent swimming pools and spas. Proposed 411.4(B) provides
for this and the following benefits.
a) Conveniently specifies installation characteristics for all of pools, spas,
fountains, and similar locations and does not require the reader to locate those
requirements that are in Article 680.
b) Provides installation characteristics for system parts for storable pools and
fountains and eliminates the need for the reader to attempt to locate in Article
680 the nonexistent requirements for installing nonimmersed luminaires near
storable pools and fountains.
c) Clarifies that GFCI protection applies to the power supply of the lighting
system and not the luminaries. This eliminates the possibility that a reader
of present 411.4(B) will conclude that a GFCI is required in the low voltage
isolated system circuit for the low voltage luminaires because Article 680
requires GFCI protection for luminaries.
d) Specifies installation distance, height, and GFCI protection that match
or are more stringent than specified in Article 680 for 120 volt luminaires for
permanent pools and spas.

Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle in Part
First, the panel accepts the changes shown in the proposal to the title of 411.4
and Section 411.4(A).
Secondly, the panel has modified 411.4(B) to read as follows:
(B) Pools, Spas, Fountains, and Similar Locations.
Lighting systems shall be installed a minimum of 3 m (10 ft) horizontally from
the nearest edge of the water, unless permitted by Article 680.
Panel Statement: Proposed text of 411.4(B) was not accepted because the
proposed requirements are in conflict with the requirements of 680.22(b). The
panel does not agree that the proposed language is more strintgent, when in
fact it is less......
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