Pool questions, Light and Pump

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gumbyElvis

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I am doing my first pool (yes I have a license and passed the test) and I am confused by a few things:
Wet niche light ground--- I ran the #8 stranded from the lug inside of the light to the panel and the #8 solid from the outside of the light to the grid around the pool. But, the cord from the light fixture has another ground in it. Is this normal? Why do I need a number 14 ground when I have a #8 going back to the panel without a splice? I guess I'll pull a ground in for this one to and run it to the common ground where the switches are.

Problem #2
The pump (a Hayward superpump Model C48L2N134B1 1 1/2HP 120/230V 18.6/9.3A) has no place to hook a neutral. I know it needs GFCI protection, and that requires a neutral, yet on the diagram on the pump it shows no neutral just L1 L2 and a grounding terminal. I am at a loss for how I run a GFCI with no grounded wire, only a grounding.
Rob
 
Question 1: The 14AWG ground is for the fixture itself rather than the niche.
The only contact between the niche and the fixture is one screw and a hook normally, so rather than rely on those points of contact, there is an integral ground. Besides, some niches are plastic.

Question 2: Your nameplate info says right in it how to hook up the pump. You should have two terminals marked for lines 1 & 2. If you are hooking it up for 230v. there will be not neutral, and one is not needed to make the gfi opperate properly. The GFCI only needs line side neutral connection. See http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=78961&highlight=GFCI for more info on GFCI's with no neutral
 
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Do you have an listed box for the pool light? It should have integral lugs for the bonding and grounding connections. One more lug than conduit entries. Your EGC run with the lighting circuit would connect there as well as the EGC in the light fixture cord and the #8 from the forming shell. The #8 is not required to go back to the panel. The requirement is for a minimum of #12 insulated conductor.
 
Deck box

Deck box

It is an in-ground pool with a Junction box between the light and the switch which is on the house wall by the pump about 50 ft from the light. I was going to fish a ground from the switch box to this j-box for the 3rd ground.
Rob

This is the first time in a very long time I have had to deal with a GFCI over 120 volts. The last one I did anything with was at McDonnell Douglas in 1987. It just seems odd to have a circuit checking for the difference in the current flow on the grounded and ungrounded and not have an grounded wire going to the load! I am still trying to get my arms arround that one.
 
The #8 is for "bonding", not "grounding". The 8 "bonds" all metal parts associated with the pool within 5' of the water to be bonded together. Hand rails, steel in concrete, window frames witnin 5', pool pump, etc. The #14 does the "grounding". The #8 does not go back to the panel. If you loose the #8 stuck up at the pump for bonding, you can grab it at the light j-box and bond the pump
 
gumbyElvis said:
This is the first time in a very long time I have had to deal with a GFCI over 120 volts. The last one I did anything with was at McDonnell Douglas in 1987. It just seems odd to have a circuit checking for the difference in the current flow on the grounded and ungrounded and not have an grounded wire going to the load! I am still trying to get my arms arround that one.
Click to expand...
Here's a quick lesson on how GFCI's work:

The circuit conductors (3 if a 2-pole) pass through a ferrite ring that also has a pickup coil on it. If the current through the circuit conductors is equal (meaning that all the current leaving through the device are returning through it), there will be no voltage induced in the pickup coil.

If someone is receiving a shock (or other stray current is flowing), that current is returning to the supply neutral without passing through the circuit conductors and the ferrite ring. Now there is a small voltage being induced in the pickup coil, which is amplified and used to trip the GFCI.

As long as you connect the supply side of the GFCI correctly, including neutral pigtail, it doesn't matter whether one or both lines are passing current, or even whether the neutral is, or is even used. As long as all current leaving is returned on the same conductor group, there is no coil voltage.

Notice that the EGC has no bearing on the operation of the GFCI. The only requisite is that the system have a grounded conductor to conduct the stray current that bypasses the GFCI back to the supply.
 
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LarryFine said:
The only requisite is that the system have a grounded conductor to conduct the stray current that bypasses the GFCI back to the supply.
Click to expand...

Your really stuck on that point huh? :D

IMO that is equivalent to saying the only requisite is that the circuit is live for the GFCI to function.

Can you think of any GFCI application that would not be supplied from a grounded system?

Not trying to bust your chops we just see it a bit differently.

JMO, Bob
 
iwire said:
Your really stuck on that point huh? :D

IMO that is equivalent to saying the only requisite is that the circuit is live for the GFCI to function.

Can you think of any GFCI application that would not be supplied from a grounded system?

Not trying to bust your chops we just see it a bit differently.
Click to expand...
I just threw that in to see if you were paying attention. :D

But, yes, it is also important for the circuit to be live for a GFCI device to operate. ;)
 
pool questions, light and pump

pool questions, light and pump

if you want to use the motor at 120 volts. Connect the black wire to L1. the white to L2 and then slide the selector switch to the 120 volt position.
 
I wanted to come back and thank everyone for their input. I had a very busy last couple of days and I just now got a chance to sit down and absorb the great information here.

Rob
 
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