Pool Scoreboard GFI Requirements/Disconnecting means

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SSDriver

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Electrician
I am running the electrical for a pool scoreboard at a school. The plans show 4 dedicated circuits mounted on the back of the scoreboard (located about 12' from the pool edge and 15' minimum from the pool deck). The scoreboard company wants those 4 dedicated circuits to be duplex receptacles but not GFCI protected and mounted in 4 different spots on the back of the scoreboard framing.. This is an outdoor pool and I don't want to install non GFCI receptacles outdoor even if they are between 15' and 20' above the pool deck.. Apparently each circuit has 4 different PSU's that leak a total of about 3 ma per circuit. When the scoreboards get a little older they trip if on GFCI's.

My solution is to install 4 junction boxes(instead of receptacles) so I don't have to have GFCI protection. I would then need to install switches (disconnects) for each circuit at the scoreboard as I see this as a sign (article 600) and I would now need a disconnecting means. Since this is not pool circulation related equipment I don't think the sign would need GFCI if it was hardwired and had disconnects. Does this sound like it would be code compliant? Am I missing something. The scoreboard company is fine with hard wiring if it means I don't need GFCI protection.
 
Based on some earlier conversations here, a scoreboard would count as an electric sign, so follow those rules. Sounds like hard-wiring would be a lot better than any receptacles for many reasons. (Four circuits for a pool-size scoreboard? Either that's one bright display or the company hasn't actually measured the load and doesn't know the real draw.)

And IMHO, any PSU that leaks 3+ ma when new probably doesn't belong near a pool, anyway. Heck, doesn't belong in new equipment, either.
 
It does take 4 circuits, I've seen a hand full of other installs. Appearently each circuit has 4 PSU's that leak .75 ma as each circuit feeds 4 diffent sections of the scoreboard(16 sections total. Its the newer style full color/video scoreboards.

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SSDriver said:
My solution is to install 4 junction boxes(instead of receptacles) so I don't have to have GFCI protection. I would then need to install switches (disconnects) for each circuit at the scoreboard as I see this as a sign (article 600) and I would now need a disconnecting means. Since this is not pool circulation related equipment I don't think the sign would need GFCI if it was hardwired and had disconnects. Does this sound like it would be code compliant? Am I missing something. The scoreboard company is fine with hard wiring if it means I don't need GFCI protection.
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Are you running four circuits from a panel at another building? If so, would running a feeder to a small panel mounted on the back of the sign be better? You could use the breakers as disconnects. Running a single feeder would probably be less expensive.
 
Yes I am. But it's only about a 40-50' run to the base of the scoreboard. Theres a 3/4" conduit under the concrete deck that I will be utilizing
 
Sign or not, the receptacles are outdoors and require GFCI protection per 210.8(B)(4). There is nothing in Article 600 that acts to modify this requirement.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Sign or not, the receptacles are outdoors and require GFCI protection per 210.8(B)(4). There is nothing in Article 600 that acts to modify this requirement.
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Yes thats why I was hoping to hardwire them instead without gfci and add a disconnect as required by article 600. I just want to make sure I'm compliant if they are hardwired(with disconnect for each circuit), no receptacle's. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
 
I'd bet that 750 microamps is not 'leakage', but an EMI common mode filter capacitor that is needed for the scoreboards to not 'cickup".
Little 0.015 uF cap in circuit likely. 4 circuits probably just to keep EMI level and ground current low per line?

Common practice in the 'old days' to have a 0.2 uF cap to chassis in tube radio/phono sets. Still remember that we would hae to reverse the plug to keep from getting a good strong tingle from phono with metal arm if we tried to play records while sitting on the hot air duct. o_O
 
SSDriver said:
Yes thats why I was hoping to hardwire them instead without gfci and add a disconnect as required by article 600. I just want to make sure I'm compliant if they are hardwired(with disconnect for each circuit), no receptacle's. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
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Do the instructions provide for the use of hardwired connections?
 
The scoreboard company comes back out to do the hook up. I am supposed to supply the 4 outlets mounted to the back of the scoreboard. Usually they install cords/plugs and plug into the boxes the EC mounts, but after I spoke with them they said will bring "whips necessary" to connect to the 4 junction boxes. They are happy to hard wire the scoreboard as long as I don't install GFCI. Like I said before, I just want to make sure I don't need GFCI protection and am not missing anything that would require it for a hard wire install at its current location.
 
SSDriver said:
Yes thats why I was hoping to hardwire them instead without gfci and add a disconnect as required by article 600. I just want to make sure I'm compliant if they are hardwired(with disconnect for each circuit), no receptacle's. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.
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Dont forget that the switch "shall open all ungrounded conductors simultaneously" (600.6). I've seen that part missed many time on sites I've been to.
 
Fred B said:
Dont forget that the switch "shall open all ungrounded conductors simultaneously" (600.6). I've seen that part missed many time on sites I've been to.
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Thank you for this response. Reading that section of the code I'm not sure I understand it correctly. They way it is worded I can almost interpret it in a couple of ways.

600.6 Disconnects. Each sign and outline lighting system,
feeder conductor(s), or branch circuit(s) supplying a sign, outline lighting system, or skeleton tubing shall be controlled by
an externally operable switch or circuit breaker that opens all
ungrounded conductors and controls no other load. The switch
or circuit breaker shall open all ungrounded conductors simul
taneously on multi-wire branch circuits in accordance with
210.4(B).
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In reading it, can one interpret it that each individual circuit (s) must have a disconnect that opens all un-grounded conductors for that circuit, but not a single disconnect that simultaneously opens all circuits. Otherwise why would they have to include the second sentence that states the switch much open all underground conductors SIMULTANEOUSLY on a MWBC. I would think they would include the phrase "a single disconnect that opens all circuits SIMULTANEOUSLY" as they do in 230.74. And actually use the word "SIMULTANEOUSLY" as in the second sentence of 600.6 and in 230.74.

230.74 Simultaneous Opening of Poles. Each service disconnect shall simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded service conductors that it controls from the premises wiring system.
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I may just install the 4 receptacles per plan but put them on GFCI breakers. If it trips in a few years, its on the manufacturer. I will be installing the receptacles per plan and per code. My extent of the install is simply installing 4 receptacles on 2 poles.
 
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