Pool, Timer bonding

[Iddy Ohtay]

Greetings,
Im new to this forum. If I use a Metal Timer box on an inground pool should I bond the case of the timer along with everything else. Ive done a few hundred pools and have never had a problem with it but after reading some of the threads here it seems like not a bad idea.
I do tie grounds for the pump and heater to a lug in the Timer so It seems a little redundant ,but I have seen timers and other metal boxes bonded on service calls ,I just dont like that bare wire inside boxes seems like its just in the way.

 

[sparkydon]

. If I use a Metal Timer box on an inground pool should I bond the case of the timer along with everything else.

Yes.

I do tie grounds for the pump and heater to a lug in the Timer so It seems a little redundant ,but I have seen timers and other metal boxes bonded on service calls ,I just dont like that bare wire inside boxes seems like its just in the way.

So you bond your loads together to the case, but don't bond the Equipment Grounding Conductor from the source? I'm confused.

 

[Iddy Ohtay]

yes everything goes back to the main panel.
Bond is # 8 solid starting at the pump housing to the pool steel, back of light niche, ladder and railing cups, then to the heater.
the pump ground goes from the pump housing to the timer lug.
the timer lug is grounded to the main panel.

 

[George Stolz]

Yes, I believe the timer is required to be connected to the equipotential bonding grid by 680.26(B)(4).

 

[stickboy1375]

Yes, I believe the timer is required to be connected to the equipotential bonding grid by 680.26(B)(4).

Only if its within 5' no?

Never mind, read the article, I only use/receive plastic pool timers...

 

[Oakey]

Yes, I believe the timer is required to be connected to the equipotential bonding grid by 680.26(B)(4).

Thats it... no more pools for me EVER

 

[augie47]

timer

timer

not to be in disagreement (although I do believe the BONDING of the timer does have a 5 ft rule) but I fear we are getting BONDING & GROUNDING intwined. (timer lug grounded to main panel, etc)

 

[celtic]

Thats it... no more pools for me EVER

I'm with you ....what a PITA!

 

[mpd]

look at the FPN under 680.26 (A), is that timer within 5ft of the pool, if it is less than 5ft it is a violation, read 680.26 for bonding requirements, don't confuse it with grounding

 

[George Stolz]

You all could be right - but there is no 5' rule in 680.26(B)(4). The pump could be 200' away and still require a #8, agreed?

So, what is covered under 680.26(B)(4)?

 

[dnem]

You have to first sort thru the mess that the code has made of the word "grounding". . There is no way to definitely separate "grounding" from "bonding" when you read the code. . Just when you think you have it straight you see a picture like Figure 250.4 that indicates that bonding is everything. . So I gave up and went a different route.

You have 3 different "animals" that frequently get mixed up
1] electrode grounding
2] equipment grounding
3] equipotential bonding

electrode grounding attempts to make the entire system [service or SDS] electrically invisible to lightning or other types of overvoltage. . It's covered under 250.50 thru 250.70 and sized by T250.66.

equipment grounding primarily exists to ensure operation of the OCPD [breaker/fuse]. . It's covered under 250.110 thru 250.148 and sized by T250.122.

equipotential bonding has a function similar to the bonding described in 250.104. . It is connecting metal nonelectrical items [ex: pool ladder railings] to their associated electrical equipment [ex: pool motor]. . You find it is an issue in 547.10 Agricultural, 680.26 Pools, + 682.33 Lakes. . It's purpose is "to prevent a difference in voltage from developing within the plane" [547.2], "to eliminate voltage gradients" [680.26(A)], "to mitigate step and touch voltages" [682.33]. . In each case the bonding wire is min #8 [547.10(B), 680.26(B)(4)+(C), 682.33(C)].

My main point here is to clarify, so that equipment grounding doesn't become confused with equipotential bonding.

680.26(B)(4) doesn't definitively define the breaking point. . It does say, "Metal parts of electrical equipment associated with pool water circulating system. . But does this include a timer ? . Does the 5' measure come into the picture [680.26(B)(5)]. . Obviously the timer circuit will have an equipment grounding conductor but does the equipotential bonding have to be extended to the timer housing ?

I think it's open to debate.

But what's not open to debate is the fact that there are 2 separate things that are involved and they should only interact when the code requires them to. . One example of the equipotential bonding being connected to the equipment grounding is 680.26(B)(4)para2 Double-Insulated Motors.

David

 

[Oakey]

I met an inspector on the job today for my pool inspection. He says pool timers.chlorinators and associated equpment must be bonded. I looked under the chlorinator and there was a bonding lug from the factory. Good fun...

 

[dnem]

I met an inspector on the job today for my pool inspection. He says pool timers.chlorinators and associated equpment must be bonded. I looked under the chlorinator and there was a bonding lug from the factory. Good fun...

I've been thinking about how I have been enforcing 680.26(B)(4). . I realize that I've been proceeding instinctively rather than by a thought out interpretation of code regulation.

Up to this point, when I have seen timers, chlorinators, etc in close proximity to the pool motor, I have looked for an equipotential bonding wire. . But when the timer is off somewhere else, such as exterior pool motor but the timer down in the basement, I haven?t looked for that bond wire at the timer. . If this was ?raceways, metal piping, and all fixed metal parts? [680.26(B)(5)] then I could justify thinking about a 5? limit. . But it?s not. . No matter where the timer is located, it?s housing is ?metal parts of electrical equipment? [680.26(B)(4)] which has no distance limit.

My question now is if the remote timer in the basement should be viewed as ?associated with the pool water circulating system? [680.26(B)(4)] or is it apart from the system and simply a timer for a circuit that happens to go to the pool and that would be no different than a basement/garage timer for the sprinkler circuit or a timer for an exterior lighting circuit.

If you saw all of the pool equipment outside and then down in the basement 3 metal housing timers lined up side by side next to the panel, one for the pool, one for the sprinkler, one for exterior lighting, and all, of course, had their proper equipment grounding conductor connected. . Would it be a reasonable code interpretation to expect an equipotential bonding wire to be brought from the pool to the one timer only ?

David

 

[augie47]

timer

timer

I don't read in the code where ther timer metal housing needs to be connected to the bonding gird unless it's within 5' of the pool...and then only because it's a piece of metal over 4". ... To me, it's no more a part of the water circulating system than the circuit breaker that supplies the pump, etc..

 

[stickboy1375]

I don't read in the code where ther timer metal housing needs to be connected to the bonding gird unless it's within 5' of the pool...and then only because it's a piece of metal over 4". ... To me, it's no more a part of the water circulating system than the circuit breaker that supplies the pump, etc..

Exactly, so if I have to bond the timer, then your saying I have to bond the metal box for my receptacle that my pool pump is plugged into.... which I have NEVER done before...

 

[augie47]

box

box

if it's within 5 ft (680.22) and not protected by a permanent barrier (680.26 B 5) I'd say yes.....(admittingly I never checked for that on an inspection.)

 

[stickboy1375]

if it's within 5 ft (680.22) and not protected by a permanent barrier (680.26 B 5) I'd say yes.....(admittingly I never checked for that on an inspection.)

If my pool pump receptacle was within 5' of the pool it would be in violation... :grin: so I wouldn't worry about the bonding too much...

 

[mpd]

first of all it would be a violation to have a receptacle, switch, or electrical panel within 5ft of the pool.

a timer, junction box, electrical panel, is not associated with the pool water circulating system, no pool water is circulated thru that equipment,

 

[augie47]

bond

bond

as I stated in an earlier post.....I've become accustom to the taste of crow.

 

[George Stolz]

a timer, junction box, electrical panel, is not associated with the pool water circulating system, no pool water is circulated thru that equipment,

What if I wired it with SER?

Just messing with you.

How is it not associated with the pool water circulating system? Doesn't the system depend on the timer's 'permission' to operate?

It doesn't say "connected to the pool water circulating system", it says, "associated."

But I'm not entirely sure of their intentions in this. Why must the pool pump be connected if it is a block away? It's well outside reasonable concern for equipotential bonding, but is still required to be bonded, isn't it?

(As a disclaimer, I don't do many pools.)