Pool Wiring

[cth6]

I am caught between my electrician and the building official. Can someone help me out on this.

Let me start with.
*I have 3/4" ENT running along a wall. It will be very hard to attempt to sister up another conduit run next to it.
*In the 3/4" ENT I have 1 220v 20A circuit (2 Hot [both black], 1 Ground [green]) and I have a 120v 20A circuit (1 Hot [red], 1 Common [white], [Shares the same ground]. All are 12 AWG solid copper. So total of 5 conductors.
*The 3/4" ENT Terminates to a water tight pull box. This large box feeds two 120v lights tied to the 120v 20A circuit. The 220v 20A circuit feeds the pump, heater, and Salt Generator. So one 3/4" in and 5 1/2" conduits out.
*My electrician got into it with the inspector of a small town. I have to prove to the inspector that my electrician is correct, or I am going to have to run another conduit and I have no idea where I can run it with our killing my margin.


Does this sound ok, or what do I need to look deeper into?

I believe that I am OK with 5 conductors in a 3/4" ENT. Max is 6 at #12.

How can I tell what the pull box is rated for in respect to the number of ties or feeders.

Is it ok to share the ground between two feeder circuits? Does it need to be larger then 12 AWG? Is it as simple as 2 20A circuits = 40A and the ground should be rated for 40A [#10 Ground]?

My electrician is helping me out, but I want to confirm what I am hearing before I call the city back.

Thanks in advance.

CT

 

[hey_poolboy]

Re: Pool Wiring

I believe it should be your electrician's duty to argue his point with the AHJ, not yours. After all you are paying him to do the job. He should be able to prove with code ref.s if he is correct or not.

 

[websparky]

Re: Pool Wiring

A pool is wired much differently than other circuits. I would suggest you look much deeper and read 680 to find the errors in your wiring methods.
Sounds like your inspector is right.

 

[peter d]

Re: Pool Wiring

What exactly did the inspector cite as a violation?

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Pool Wiring

If you are talking about ENT, the blue flexible conduit see 362.12 of the 2002 NEC. Quote "Uses not permitted: #10 Where subject to physical damage" if he wants to enforce it hes right.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: Pool Wiring

You state you are using ent. If you are is your ent conduit run entirely on the interior of a one family dwelling? Code section 362.12 (7) ,(9),(10). 680.21 (A)(1). Also what type of pool light is this?. If above 15v that light needs gfi protection in the branch circuit before you reach the light. Is your gfi protection a breaker back in the panel? If so then sharing the conduit with non gfi protected conductors is not allowed, unless the other conductors are line side feeds to another gfi.

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Pool Wiring

Ct can you shield the ENT from physical abuse?

You could maybe add another neutral for your GFI circuit load.You just need one equipment ground if it is as large as your largest ungrounded conductor.

Quote from macmikeman

If so then sharing the conduit with non gfi protected conductors is not allowed, unless the other conductors are line side feeds to another gfi.

I wasn't aware of that code could you direct me to it is it in the 2002 NEC?

And did you mean the load side of other GFIs?

 

[macmikeman]

Re: Pool Wiring

I wasn't aware of that code could you direct me to it is it in the 2002 NEC?

Ronald, not sure about 2002, but 2005 its 680.23(F)(3).

 

[ronaldrc]

Re: Pool Wiring

Thanks

It is in 2002 same place 680.23 Para.F. Branch circuit wiring.(3)Conductors

Conductors on the load side of a ground fault interrupter or of a transformer,used to comply with provisions of 680.23(A)(8),shall not occupy raceways,boxes,or enclosures containing other conductors unless one of the following conditions applies:

Four in all, three apply here.

(1)The other conductors are protected by ground-fault circuit interrupters.

(2) The other conductors are grounding conductors

I don't understand #3 why would these conductors be of a less hazard to the 15 volt lights or load side GFI conductor than any other unprotected conductors?

(3) The other conductors are the supply conductors to a feed through type ground-fault circuit interrupter. I thought their logic was not to take a chance of hotting any of the 15 volt light wiring by appling 120 to it?

But these conditions apply only if you have 15 volt pool lighting.

 

[cth6]

Re: Pool Wiring

So to answer some previous questions.

First I am not an electrician, but you probably could tell that from my post.

Second, my electrician thinks he is correct, but is not comfortable going back to argue with the inspector. I have a call into the inspector but have not heard back yet on why it failed. The failure notice is not in the permit box. My electrician believes it was because the ground was too small 12 AWG and that the two circuts (110) and (220) were in the same 3/4 conduit. The reason I am pushing this is the only other way to get a second conduit is to route it through the attic and then down the side of a 2 story house. This is a small town in the middle of florida.

Third, The conduit, which I refered to ENT is the grey PVC looking like conduit, not the blue flex stuff. It is mounted to the exterior of a CMU block house.

Thanks.

CT

 

[cth6]

Re: Pool Wiring

Forgot one.

The pool light is a 120v 300W light.
The spa light is a 120v 100W light.

They are tied to a 20A GFI breaker and a single switch.

CT

 

[bradleyelectric]

Re: Pool Wiring

Originally posted by cth6:
my electrician thinks he is correct, but is not comfortable going back to argue with the inspector.

Was he comfortable with taking payment?
Did he pull the permit, or did you?
Does he have a license to do this work?
I'm thinking you may have gotten what you paid for here.

[ August 27, 2005, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: bradleyelectric ]