Portable Generator Inlet location

[GarwoodV6]

This is a feeder and 250.122 applies.

OK good. Beats having to run a #6 to comply as a GEC connection.

That said, if a Ground rod is driven at a generator and connected to the generator feeder circuit grounding conductor going to the Service, would the grounding conductor become a GEC and have to be upsized per 250.66?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

OK good. Beats having to run a #6 to comply as a GEC connection.

That said, if a Ground rod is driven at a generator and connected to the generator feeder circuit grounding conductor going to the Service, would the grounding conductor become a GEC and have to be upsized per 250.66?

Why would you install a grounding electrode at the generator? If you do install one, the only GEC is between the generator and the grounding electrode. The EGC for the feeder will provide the bonding between the grounding electrode systems at the building and the generator as required in 250.58.
You could also call it a 250.54 electrode and then there are no code rules as how it is installed.

Is there an OCPD at the generator?....if not the conductor between the generator and the inlet will be a supply side bonding jumper sized per Table 250.102(C)

 

[jap]

Before long generator manufacturers are going to have to incorporate a large paddle switch to bond and unbond the neutral that simply says for house use flip this way for all other use flip the other way.

Even then a normal person is never going to understand the whole floating neutral generator bonding thing.

JAP>

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Ignoring the violation of the generator's listing for the moment, I see nothing that would prohibit an inlet used with a connecting cable from being installed next to the generator in this case. Matter of fact you wouldn't even need an inlet. Wire the cable right into a panel or a Jbox with wiring over to the panel.

-Hal

On my own house and a few of my customers where it worked out well for them. I have hard wired a cord with a male end and hung it on a hose reel or large hook in the garage. All they had to do is place the generator a safe distance from the garage door and plunge in only one end and engage the transfer switch or Interlock device.

 

[qcroanoke]

If you install the inlet outdoors what's to stop you from putting the generator in or to close to the garage anyway? They sell the cord as long as you want to make it.

 

[GarwoodV6]

Why would you install a grounding electrode at the generator? If you do install one, the only GEC is between the generator and the grounding electrode. The EGC for the feeder will provide the bonding between the grounding electrode systems at the building and the generator as required in 250.58.
You could also call it a 250.54 electrode and then there are no code rules as how it is installed.

Is there an OCPD at the generator?....if not the conductor between the generator and the inlet will be a supply side bonding jumper sized per Table 250.102(C)

Yes, the generator under consideration is a Dutomax 13000 and has OCP on the output. The Neutral is also UNBONDED as built in the factory.
I would not drive a ground rod for the portable generator if I am connecting it to a service panel bonded to its ground rod. I also would make sure the neutral is not bonded at the generator in this application.

Some Standby generator dealer/ installers do drive a ground rod for their pad-mounted generators. I am seeking to clarify the GEC requirements under those circumstances.
As I see it, this would be an auxiliary electrode and would require a #6CU to tie it to the Grounding system at the Service. The #10 feeder grounding conductor in 6/3 NM for this portable generator feeder would be undersized if it were connected to another driven ground rod. Correct, or no?

 

[GarwoodV6]

Before long generator manufacturers are going to have to incorporate a large paddle switch to bond and unbond the neutral that simply says for house use flip this way for all other use flip the other way.

Even then a normal person is never going to understand the whole floating neutral generator bonding thing.

JAP>

I see that coming too... could lead to bad outcomes.

 

[GarwoodV6]

L

On my own house and a few of my customers where it worked out well for them. I have hard wired a cord with a male end and hung it on a hose reel or large hook in the garage. All they had to do is place the generator a safe distance from the garage door and plunge in only one end and engage the transfer switch or Interlock device.

My favorite way with an interior MCB panel on a garage wall is to permanently wire a long SO cord to the panel (with interlock kit). Hang the cord just right so it will feed itself off the hook when you pull it outside. Run the SO cord through the exterior wall put a cord plug that matches the generator output, and put a deep weatherproof in-use cover on the exterior side that the cord plug will fit in.Open the in-use cover and pull out enough cord to get the noise and exhaust well away from windows and doors. Slick

Easy to use -and saves about $100-$150 on the cost of an inlet box, wiring and mounting materials, and female cord cap.

 

[jap]

L

My favorite way with an interior MCB panel on a garage wall is to permanently wire a long SO cord to the panel (with interlock kit). Hang the cord just right so it will feed itself off the hook when you pull it outside. Run the SO cord through the exterior wall put a cord plug that matches the generator output, and put a deep weatherproof in-use cover on the exterior side that the cord plug will fit in.Open the in-use cover and pull out enough cord to get the noise and exhaust well away from windows and doors. Slick

Easy to use -and saves about $100-$150 on the cost of an inlet box, wiring and mounting materials, and female cord cap.

I'd pay the $100- $150 to install the outdoor inlet.

JAP>

 

[LarryFine]

. . . permanently wire a long SO cord to the panel . . .

Is that compliant?

 

[GarwoodV6]

Is that compliant?

Isn't it?

SO is used for temporary feeder via backfed CB with mechanical interlock kit. Panel is exposed in garage, SO cord permanently affixed to panel can with appropriate cable clamp used entering the panel. SO jacket stripped inside panel. SO passes through wall via PVC into deep in-use cover on exterior to protect the male cord cap when not in use.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
As I see it, this would be an auxiliary electrode and would require a #6CU to tie it to the Grounding system at the Service. The #10 feeder grounding conductor in 6/3 NM for this portable generator feeder would be undersized if it were connected to another driven ground rod. Correct, or no?

What code section tells you that? There are no rules for the size of the connection to a 250.54 electrode, and it only connects to the EGC.

 

[GarwoodV6]

I'd pay the $100- $150 to install the outdoor inlet.

JAP>

The inlet and separate cord is neater & sweeter, but to me, "Less is more" - particularly when it means less wire joints and terminations. The GEN cord is always where it needs to be, although it can't be taken anywhere else when tied to a panel.

To each their own, provided it meets NEC. ;<)

 

[infinity]

Is permanently wiring a flexible cord into a panel ever code compliant?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Is permanently wiring a flexible cord into a panel ever code compliant?

Are you saying that cord drops are a violation?
Example: Via panel - conduit - flex cord on strain relief with receptacle end.

 

[GoldDigger]

Are you saying that cord drops are a violation?
Example: Via panel - conduit - flex cord on strain relief with receptacle end.

I think the question posed was whether you could leave out the conduit part and wire directly from the panel.
I'm not sure that makes any difference, code wise.

 

[MattG0311]

400.12 for not permitted uses of cords and cables. I don’t see SO cord running through a wall from a panel as compliant…

 

[GoldDigger]

400.12 for not permitted uses of cords and cables. I don’t see SO cord running through a wall from a panel as compliant…

Surface mounted panel.

 

[MattG0311]

Surface mounted panel.

I missed that! As well as the SO is sleeving through conduit.

 

[qcroanoke]

As long as it had an interlock on it I would consider it temporary wiring put a green tag on it move on.