Power Pedestal

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steve66

steve66

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Location
Illinois
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Engineer
Do these posts need conduit and an jbox inside them to comply with the NEC?

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp279/Steve066/PowerPedestal005.jpg

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp279/Steve066/PowerPedestal002.jpg

Or can the conduit just stub up in the base of the post, and have the wire run up and terminate inside the post?

I can't see this post being UL listed as a raceway, or as a termination box.

But I also can't understand how the get a box fastened to a conduit inside this post.

Can this be a compliant installation??

Thanks:
Steve
 
Is it possible that this post actually has conduit and a box inside it? I couln't believe that earlier, but if the conduit was stubbed up, then the box is fastened to the conduit, and then the post is slid over the conduit and box, I guess it might be possible.

Steve
 
wireguru said:
where is the protection for a truck backing into it? seems a little close to the curb.....
Click to expand...

Well, those photos are of two existing outlets, so I'm not concerned if they get flattened.

But a client would like me to specify the same power pedestals for a new project (which will be far away from teh curb).

So in my opinion, I have to specify conduit and a box inside the post, but it looks like an impossible install.
 
IMO those posts are not a chapter 3 wiring method and are in violation of the NEC.

You might be able to do it with a direct burial cable assembly but you would still need to add a box at the top for that type of outlet.
 
alfiesauce said:
If you need a jb inside of post then wouldn't you need to install a jb inside every light standard as well?
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If I'm not mistaked, lighting standards are listed for use as a raceway. A regualr steel post wouldn't have the same listing.

I even though about looking for a 6" square, 4' lighting pole that could be used for the post. But I don't think 4' poles are a standard item.

Too bad nobody makes a bollard light without the light.

Steve
 
iwire said:
IMO those posts are not a chapter 3 wiring method and are in violation of the NEC.

You might be able to do it with a direct burial cable assembly but you would still need to add a box at the top for that type of outlet.
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Thanks, Bob. That's pretty much what I wanted to hear...someone say you're not crazy for thinking wiring inside a steel post needs additional protection.

I hadn't thought about direct burry cable. I don't suppose the cable could just pass through a hole in the bottom of the box. I assume it would need some kind of connector.

Steve
 
They once had a big toy that they parked there for their GIG in its time.
I'm sure it was compliant... then
Some things are just no fun anymore....

Besides it could well be a civil service situation ?

MO
 
What's the difference between stubbing up into the base of light pole and chasing the wires through the pole versus chasing through a piece of steel square tubing? From an NEC standpoint, probably just the UL listing.

I'm sure it's a violation, but I would definitely run it by the inspector first to see if he would pass it or not. I'm more of a common sense kind of guy, than a "follow the NEC to the letter" type. I see no inherent safety risk in using tubing as long as there are means to ground it properly. And that is why I'd ask the inspector if he would allow it.
 
Cow said:
What's the difference between stubbing up into the base of light pole and chasing the wires through the pole versus chasing through a piece of steel square tubing? From an NEC standpoint, probably just the UL listing.

I'm sure it's a violation, but I would definitely run it by the inspector first to see if he would pass it or not. I'm more of a common sense kind of guy, than a "follow the NEC to the letter" type. I see no inherent safety risk in using tubing as long as there are means to ground it properly. And that is why I'd ask the inspector if he would allow it.
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Yes. Dito.
I have installed car receptacles in such applications where the parking rail was built on site by welders using square tubing.

Cow makes a great point- ask the local authority and see if he'll make a clear enough call for you.
 
alfiesauce said:
If you need a jb inside of post then wouldn't you need to install a jb inside every light standard as well?
Click to expand...

There is a specific code section that allows the use of poles as raceway and support of fixtures, see 410.15(B).

Let me spin it around on you. If this tubing made up the structure of a building could you snake THHN through it and call it a raceway?
 
Cow said:
What's the difference between stubbing up into the base of light pole and chasing the wires through the pole versus chasing through a piece of steel square tubing? From an NEC standpoint, probably just the UL listing.
Click to expand...

Square or round is not the issue. :roll:

The fact that there is a specific code section allowing it for light poles does make a difference.

I'm sure it's a violation
Click to expand...

Right it is a violation and I believe that was what Steve wanted to know.



but I would definitely run it by the inspector first to see if he would pass it or not. I'm more of a common sense kind of guy, than a "follow the NEC to the letter" type. I see no inherent safety risk in using tubing as long as there are means to ground it properly. And that is why I'd ask the inspector if he would allow it.
Click to expand...

And I am more of a 'Use my head and come up with a method that works and meets code kind of guy'.
 
alfiesauce said:
Cow makes a great point- ask the local authority and see if he'll make a clear enough call for you.
Click to expand...

No, In my opinion trying to get a direct violation passed is a hack type of move. Finding a way to make the customer happy and still meet the NEC the professional way handle it.

Asking the AHJ is what you do when the code is not clear, in this case the code is clear. Single condutors must be intalled in a chapter 3 wiring method.
 
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Even if the local inspector did approve the installation, as a PE, I think the liability still lies with me. (if anything were to go wrong).

Sometimes clients don't understand that, and they expect me to be willing to stamp anyting that the inspector will approve.

I hate splitting hairs, but I agree with Iwire - no conduit is a clear violation.

Steve
 
And I am more of a 'Use my head and come up with a method that works and meets code kind of guy'.
__________________

My favorite quote ever!:grin:
 
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