Power to a Separate building

[wmeek]

Can you run a 50A 240V circuit for an RV and a 120V circuit for lighting to a seperate Metal Building or are you reguired to run a feeder for sub panel.

 

[xformer]

IMHO..... Both of those are considered branch circuits. You would not be required to run a feeder to a sub panel unless your main panel has no space for the branch circuit additions. If wanting to add more than just one circuit for lighting then feeder required or MWBC.

 

[wmeek]

Thanks for your Reply. Would you have to do any bonding to the steel structure if all you was installing is the 50A 240v outlet and a 120 volt outlet

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You are not permitted to run two circuits to a second building. You will need a feeder and a panel at the second building. 22530.

 

[xformer]

IMHO.... If you are running both circuits to the metal building then, Yes... Feeder is required and proper grounding is required.

 

[petersonra]

You are not permitted to run two circuits to a second building. You will need a feeder and a panel at the second building. 22530.

I thought this was changed in 2020.

 

[petersonra]

Thanks for your Reply. Would you have to do any bonding to the steel structure if all you was installing is the 50A 240v outlet and a 120 volt outlet

Bonding to the steel structure might be required. You would need to carefully read article 250 to tell for sure. Might be easiest to just run the wire.

 

[wwhitney]

I thought this was changed in 2020.

That change applies only to feeders, not branch circuits. A new section in 225.30 "Common Supply Equipment".

Now, as one branch circuit would be 120/240V 3 wire, and the other would be 120V 2 wire, then does that qualify under (2017) 225.30(D) as "different voltages"?

If one circuit were 240V 2 wire and the other were 120V 2 wire, then I think it clearly would.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I thought this was changed in 2020.

This was added for the 2020, but still does not permit two branch circuits.

225.30(B) Common Supply Equipment.
Where feeder conductors originate in the same panelboard, switchboard, or other distribution equipment, and each feeder terminates in a single disconnecting means, not more than six feeders shall be permitted. Where more than one feeder is installed in accordance with this section, all feeder disconnects supplying the building or structure shall be grouped in the same location, and the requirements of 225.33 shall not apply. Each disconnect shall be marked to indicate the load served.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That change applies only to feeders, not branch circuits. A new section in 225.30 "Common Supply Equipment".

Now, as one branch circuit would be 120/240V 3 wire, and the other would be 120V 2 wire, then does that qualify under (2017) 225.30(D) as "different voltages"?

If one circuit were 240V 2 wire and the other were 120V 2 wire, then I think it clearly would.

Cheers, Wayne

In my opinion, those are all the same voltage system for the application of 225.30(E). I would never see two circuits that originate from the same service equipment as being of different voltages unless there was an intervening transformer.

 

[wwhitney]

In my opinion, those are all the same voltage system

Certainly.

for the application of 225.30(E).

And if 225.30(E) said "voltage system" instead of "voltage" I would agree with you. But it doesn't.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Certainly.


And if 225.30(E) said "voltage system" instead of "voltage" I would agree with you. But it doesn't.

Cheers, Wayne

Take it up with a higher authority as I am putting a red tag on the installation.

 

[LarryFine]

I would want a feeder and panel anyway.

 

[roger]

I would want a feeder and panel anyway.

Same here.

 

[infinity]

Take it up with a higher authority as I am putting a red tag on the installation.

Me too.

 

[wwhitney]

Me too.

Whatever happened to "the NEC says what it says, not what you think it says"? (2020) NEC 225.30(E) lists "different voltages" as one of the criteria. 120V != 240V. Those are different voltages, end of analysis.

Cheers, Wayne

P.S. Since 225.30(E) also lists "different uses, such as control of outside lighting from multiple locations," another avenue for 2 branch circuits to a structure is when you want some loads controllable from the supply end of the branch circuit, and some not. E.g. a shutoff at the supplying building for the exterior RV receptacle, without having to kill power to the outbuilding's interior lighting.

 

[wmeek]

I agree also with installing a feeder to 2nd building. I want to run a 2p60 feeder with 3-#6 THHN and 1-#10 Thhn to 2nd building and then run the two circuits in building. Is a main breaker required by code in the New panel.
I know i will need to bond the building steel and drive ground rod at 2nd building

 

[LarryFine]

Is a main breaker required by code in the New panel.

Yes, unless you can use the six-handle allowance.

 

[roger]

Is a main breaker required by code in the New panel.

See Part II of article 225.

 

[mikewillnot]

Is a main breaker required by code in the New panel.

I believe the panel you're thinking of, in the detached building, would be classified as a subpanel, and would not require a "main breaker," although having one might not be a bad idea. whether the subpanel is required or not (one feeder/branch circuit vs multiple feeders/branch circuits) is a different question.