In the past it has been common for us to use switch rated breakers as the only control for the lights in a factory. The get turned on and off once a day. As I read NFPA 70e if looks like this daily task would actually require a HRC of O. I assume this standard applies to the factory employees that opertate the breaker and not just the electrician. Any thoughts?
PPE for operating a breaker
- Thread starter shockin
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SiddMartin
Senior Member
- Location
- PA
I would have to agree
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
shockin said:
I'm sorry whats a HRC? Are you saying that they need a toggle switch or a bank of switchs instead of working the breaker daily ?? :smile:
joebell
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
HRC is Hazard Risk Catagory
Joe
Joe
cadpoint said:
To clarify. as joebell said it is a Hazard Risk Category. It ranges from negative one thru level 4 for what I deal with but for the POCO the scale probably goes a lot higher. Each level indicates the PPE required for the task being performed. In the example given to operate a circuit breaker with the covers in place it is a HRC of zero. This means you are required to have a natrual fiber long sleeve shirt and pants along with saftey glasses, hard hat, and leather saftey shoes to turn the breaker on or off.
shockin said:
A little overboard IMO.
A panel with the dead front and panel cover fully intact is not a hazard IMO.
I could see the argument for PPE when first energizing new equipment, or when turning a breaker on for a newly installed circuit, but an installation that has been in service and has not been modified should not be an issue.
What's next PPE to turn on a light switch, change a light bulb, plug in the vacuum cleaner. Guess I should size my wife for some arc flash gear so next time she plugs in her hair dryer she will be safe. Any one know when Victoria's Secrets' spring PPE line hits stores?
EBFD6 said:Any one know when Victoria's Secrets' spring PPE line hits stores?
I'm guessing they don't have a thong with a 31 Cal rating. I know I don't want to see our guys wearing it if they do.
I agree that the requirements seem over the top, but since when was OSHA reasonable and accomidating to deal with.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Gentlemen, lets keep your fantasies secret. :wink:
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
shockin said:
You are correct that the PPE requirements apply to everyone, in fact the word "Electrician" is not even in the NFPA 70E.
The HRC depends on the type of equipment you are working on, the available fault current, and claering time of the upstream protective device. No one in this forum can tell you if that task is HRC 0 or otherwise.
Your plant should also look at that procedure, I have seen this many tiems cause a serious failure. Your breaker is designed for a certian number of operations before it needs to be overhauled, what is the breaker type?
- Location
- Massachusetts
zog said:
I bet they are single pole 20 amp breakers that have an SWD rating, other then wearing out I have never seen one of these have a serious failure.
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
iwire said:
I agree if thats what he is talking about, I was picturing more of a 480V power circuit breaker for an entire lighting system, I have seen that done in large industrial plants for the factory lights, they had the security gaurd switch the lights off at night and on before 1st shift in AM. The breaker failed one night switching off the lights, gaurd got burned pretty bad, we did an arc flash analsis and it was something like 6 or 7 cal/cm2 @18", no one was ever wearing any PPE.
If this is just a little single pole 120V panel with the covers on, the odds are HRC 0 is good, but again, no one here can be sure until more info about fault current and clearing times are known.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
If you ever have thrown a 480 breaker with a dead short on it you would not say that. Flames come shooting out of every little crevace and seam and you thank the lord when the breaker clears. Maybe even run to a nearby store for some new underwear.EBFD6 said:
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
We don't have a scale. The NSC is a performance standard so we have to know what the incident energy is at the time of performing work and have PPE for that situation. This answer actually goes a lot deeper than that but I am not going to address any more than this.shockin said:
quogueelectric said:
I have seen sparks come shooting out from 120v recepts as well.
If this is such a safety concern, even with dead front and covers in place, then ALL electrical panels, disconnects, and service equipment should be encapsulated in lead vaults locked away from anyone who is not an electrician wearing PPE.
Panel covers and dead fronts are designed for two reasons.
1- to protect people from coming into contact with energised parts
2- to reasonably contain a blast from a fault
I have seen flames shoot out from crevasses and seams in a panel, and while it does get your attention, it (IMO) still is a safe situation and not an immediate hazard.
- Location
- Massachusetts
EBFD6 said:
We will let OSHA know that is your opinion and they are bound to change the rules. :grin:
joe tedesco
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
iwire said:
Who is WE? :-?
This is what I mean, innuendos, respect the members please!
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
If "We" just lost the art of expression, would we be better off ?
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
NO, prior to energizing a electrician should have tested the circuit for possible shorts, utilizing a megger. Then this surprised can and will be avoided.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
Who exactly is paying for this? I know I am easy but I DEFINITELY am not cheap.brian john said:
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