Pre-wire panel for residential swap-out

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FlComm

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I am about to do a full panel swap on a residence and would like to minimize downtime since it is being lived in. The current panel is flush mounted but the new will be surface mounted in the same location. I am considering pre-wiring the new panel with short segments of conductors (sized appropriately of course) and then utilizing a gutter to splice the existing circuits to the new panel whips.

My plan is to place the gutter @18" above the panel and then either use EMT or secure the cable to the backboard between them. The new panel is a Homeline 40/80 series with Qwik grip function so knockouts are limited on the top & bottom.

Could I use romex to pre-wire the panel and then cable clamp into the gutter if they are secured per above?
The SE is not being spliced so it would need to be kept outside of the gutter since it would not qualify as a raceway any longer correct?

Curious on thoughts
 
Have you estimated how much time this will actually save? It sounds like quite a bit of extra work/materials which translates to extra cost.
 
Failed to mention that I'm doing the work for family so they are buying materials but no labor costs to them. Unless beers afterward count🍻.

In addition to trying to minimize time without power I'm concerned that some of the old circuits may not reach the lower positions in the new panel. I'm going to push it up as high as I can by code but the new LC is considerably longer than the existing.
 
When circuits are short on a service upgrade we just splice them in the panel so they only need to be long enough to enter the new panel with enough wire to make a splice.

I think that your method may save you some down time but overall it won't be faster than doing it the traditional way.
 
Infinity I agree that overall my method is likely not faster but I hoped it would give a much cleaner appearance in the new panel than having splices made. The current panel is a wiring disaster and I wanted this to look as clean as possible since it's not a job I'm trying to make money on.

Do you see any issues with my method otherwise?
 
FlComm said:
The new panel is a Homeline 40/80 series with Qwik grip function so knockouts are limited on the top & bottom.
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I HATE those for upgrades, and they're barely better for new work. I would use a different panel, and without seeing why not, I would opt to put the new panel in the wall where the existing one is. Extending conductors in a panel swap is routine.
 
If I don't go the gutter route which I'm being convinced not to then I will probably put the new center back into the wall.

I've never used this series but what is so bad about them? In looking at it I see copper vs aluminum (both tinned) bus, exposed busses on the Homeline load center versus being isolated on the QO, the QO single pole breakers being 3/4" wide versus 1" for Homeline, & the trip window indicator on the QO. And the QO looks to be double, or close to it, in cost for the same configuration

We are doing the work this weekend so swapping it at this point is unlikely.
 
FlComm said:
If I don't go the gutter route which I'm being convinced not to then I will probably put the new center back into the wall.

I've never used this series but what is so bad about them? In looking at it I see copper vs aluminum (both tinned) bus, exposed busses on the Homeline load center versus being isolated on the QO, the QO single pole breakers being 3/4" wide versus 1" for Homeline, & the trip window indicator on the QO. And the QO looks to be double, or close to it, in cost for the same configuration

We are doing the work this weekend so swapping it at this point is unlikely.
Click to expand...
I think Larry was referring to the Quick Grip not HOM vs QO. I have never use the Quick Grip and don't have any plans to. I think my main supplier stopped stocking that option now too.

Unless there is something in the wall preventing the longer loadcenter I would definitely just replace in the wall with non Quick Grip HOM.
 
FlComm said:
Infinity I agree that overall my method is likely not faster but I hoped it would give a much cleaner appearance in the new panel than having splices made. The current panel is a wiring disaster and I wanted this to look as clean as possible since it's not a job I'm trying to make money on.

Do you see any issues with my method otherwise?
Click to expand...
No issues unless you end up with more than 30 CCC's at a cross section of the wireway and have to derate. Also the SEC's cannot be in the raceway with the branch circuit conductors.
 
[Q
curt swartz said:
I think Larry was referring to the Quick Grip not HOM vs QO.
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Absolutely!

When installing a new panel in an existing installation, you're basically sliding the panel KOs onto the cables. The QG does not let cables slide, so you have to push the panel completely into place before you push the cables into the cable slots.

How??? :mad:

(How, without drywall repair?)
 
infinity said:
No issues unless you end up with more than 30 CCC's at a cross section of the wireway and have to derate. Also the SEC's cannot be in the raceway with the branch circuit conductors.
Click to expand...
Looks like I am ok on fill if my math is correct and thanks for confirming the SE.

curt swartz said:
I think Larry was referring to the Quick Grip not HOM vs QO. I have never use the Quick Grip and don't have any plans to. I think my main supplier stopped stocking that option now too.

Unless there is something in the wall preventing the longer loadcenter I would definitely just replace in the wall with non Quick Grip HOM.
Click to expand...
Looks like I'm stuck with the Qwik Grip unit so I'll make a game-time decision on flush or surface mount.

LarryFine said:
[Q

Absolutely!

When installing a new panel in an existing installation, you're basically sliding the panel KOs onto the cables. The QG does not let cables slide, so you have to push the panel completely into place before you push the cables into the cable slots.

How??? :mad:

(How, without drywall repair?)
Click to expand...
I see what you are saying about the process of getting the cables into the grips. Never looked at it that way but it does seem like it could be a PITA. The wall above the panel has already been opened for some past work so wall repair is already needed anyways. I think the plan is to just go with a removable panel (plywood section) rather than doing actual drywall repair and finishing. Plus then it's accessible if ever needed in the future.
 
It's Quik-Grip by the way and available on both HOM and QO load centers, but nothing prevents you from using the other holes in a Quik-Grip panel.
 
rnatalie said:
It's Quik-Grip by the way and available on both HOM and QO load centers, but nothing prevents you from using the other holes in a Quik-Grip panel.
Click to expand...

I just went by what the Schneider site called it Square D™ Plug-on Neutral Load Centers With Qwik-Grip™

Agree but there is not much for knockouts on the top or bottom. The sides have a ton though
 
rnatalie said:
It's Quik-Grip by the way and available on both HOM and QO load centers, but nothing prevents you from using the other holes in a Quik-Grip panel.
Click to expand...
Actually two things: available knock-out quantities and available knock-out sizes. And, it's Qwik-Grip.

Those blocks eat up a lot of real estate, and eliminate most of the knock-outs:

1599834990495.png 1599835057570.png 1599835010073.png

1599835080762.png
 
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