Pricing?

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velocity

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Hey guys,

I just got my Masters in MD. I've been doing Electrical work for 16 years. I do not know how to bid a job. I need help with pricing. Its just me and my buddy so I don't want to invest in the software just yet. Can any one give me basic pricing for wiring a house...complete rehab on a 1800 sq/ft rancher. 200 amp service and complete wiring. How much to charge for additional recept, lights, cieling fans, etc....If anyone can help me or point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
 
Re: Pricing?

Invest in Craftmans Electrical Estimator, Comes with CD, around $60.00 or RS Means Book no CD, around $50.00, together with Mike Holts Estimating Book around $60.00.This will give you an idea on the estimating/bidding process. :cool: :cool:

[ January 06, 2006, 09:33 AM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
 
Re: Pricing?

You wont be able to use a systematic method of finding a price for a rewire. That will come with experience. A freind told me when in doubt bid everything in rigid. They wont know and you might make a profit.
 
Re: Pricing?

Gunning is right, do not try to use software or a book. Look the job over carefully and make a list of everything that will make the job harder than normal.
Empty or occupied, slab, crawl space or basement, is the attic covered with three feet of insulation, will any part of the house be gutted, is the service overhead or underground, is there a definite set of plans or are the homeowners going to make changes. Since this is your first rewire take time to look the job over carefully and plan out how you will proceed with the rewire. Allow reasonable times to complete each part of the job. Once you figure out how long it will take to do the job add 25% extra for things that you can't possibly foresee. I would think that the job will go somewhere between 12 and 20 thousand but it's hard to know prices in different parts of the country. You have to realize that you may be bidding against people that know even less than you do and they will do the job for nothing. The first rewire I ever did was an 1800 sq. ft. ranch,so good luck.
 
Re: Pricing?

1)do not try to use software or a book.

2) Once you figure out how long it will take to do the job add 25% extra for things that you can't possibly foresee. I would think that the job will go somewhere between 12 and 20 thousand
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1) A job overview coupled with an estimating book or CD will simplify things

2)Thats a pretty big cushion, what if he says OK my bid is $15000.00, but after all is said and done w/ the 25% added the actual cast of the job is $19500.00 :eek: :confused: , OUCH! Then what?

I would, do a job overview, takeoff, get material prices from my supplier, add a percentege to the material cost, use a book/CD with labor units, add overhead/ profit, etc and give a competitve bid, guess work will definitly end up costing, in money and jobs.
 
Re: Pricing?

JHR, The only reason I suggest adding 25% to the labor is that most people, when they first start out, are overly optimistic. And you forgot one thing, if he gets the job for $1,875.00 don't you think he'll be much happier than if he gets it for $15,000.00 and finds out he's been working for $15.00 an hour. The most important thing to know when bidding a remodeling job is to know who you are bidding against. If you know how they normally bid this will give you a real edge. I even ask to see the other bids and sometimes the owner is dumb enough to show them to me. Remember this is remodeling and the bids are not sealed.
 
Re: Pricing?

I agree with Jhr. On ANY job you estimate, you will have to determine what materials will be required, down to the nut and bolt. If you know how to wire that thing, you had better be able to come up with an accuarate B.O.M. Once you have that, apply labor units to every part and extend both material and labor to come up with total material dollars and labor hours. Hours x your hourly rate+labor burden (insurance/taxes, etc) = labor dollars. Now you need to figure job expenses (JE) such as rentals, tools, gas,trenchers, whatever. Then you have Mat$+Lab$+JE$=raw cost. Now you add whatever your overhead would be plus whatever profit you want to make. Say 10% overhead plus 15% profit (or 25% overall). Be sure to consider taxes. In my state, tax on materials only for new construction, which is applied to your material bottom line before markup. On remodel, we tax the entire cost of the job, if you are working for the end user. Hope that helps.
 
Re: Pricing?

Thanks guys,

Ok this is the low down. 1800 sq/ft rancher on a crawl space, open walls, needs new 200 amp panel and a complete rewire. With the new service panel, complete rewire and cable and phone drops my bid is going to be $5250.00. does that sound low, high or right on. Thanks for the input. Once again the walls are not finished.
 
Re: Pricing?

Sounds low to me. When I do a complete kitchen remodel, the price is generally in the $2000-$3000 range. You're talking about doing a whole house, including a service.

I think double what you quoted sounds more like the right ballpark.
 
Re: Pricing?

Originally posted by velocity:
Thanks guys,

1800 sq/ft rancher on a crawl space, open walls, needs new 200 amp panel and a complete rewire.... cable and phone drops my bid is going to be $5250.00. does that sound low, high or right on. Thanks for the input. Once again the walls are not finished.
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Sounds LOW...very low.
Starting with the service - $2k....leaving $3250 for the 1800 sq. ft.
How many phone/cable/internet drops?

Is this going to be "code minimum"...with any and all hi-hats, dimmers, ceiling fans, etc all billed as "extra"?

Some people count all the openings, assigning a dollar amount to each opening; ie an outlet is $40, a tel/cable/data opening is $50, etc.
Some people do a sq. ft. "estimate; $3250/1800 = $1.80/sq. ft.

There are plenty of ways to "estimate" a job, but you have to know what you are capable of (time wise) to make that "estimate" profitable.
 
Re: Pricing?

Originally posted by velocity:
Thanks guys,

Ok this is the low down. 1800 sq/ft rancher on a crawl space, open walls, needs new 200 amp panel and a complete rewire. With the new service panel, complete rewire and cable and phone drops my bid is going to be $5250.00. does that sound low, high or right on. Thanks for the input. Once again the walls are not finished.
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Sounds good to me...if you are only doing 1/2 the job. Way to low.
 
Re: Pricing?

Wow I didn't think it was that low, but you guys should know. I am new at this estimating and bidding thing. Give me the work and I can do it in my sleep. I guess I am going low because I want the job which isn't always a good thing. This is for a contractor not a homeowner. He buys, rehabs and sells. I also do this on the side, as I have a fulltime job. I hope to go fulltime once I establish a steady flow of work. The job looks pretty straight forward. The attic is completly open (no insulation). I shouldn't have to go in the crawl space at all. I don't know does it sound like I am making excuses for my bid...probably. I haven't submitted my bid yet so I guess I will rework it and see what I get. I just don't want to lose job because he has enough work to keep me busy fulltime. Thanks again guys for all the input.
 
Re: Pricing?

Originally posted by velocity:
Wow I didn't think it was that low, but you guys should know. I am new at this estimating and bidding thing. Give me the work and I can do it in my sleep. I guess I am going low because I want the job which isn't always a good thing. This is for a contractor not a homeowner. He buys, rehabs and sells. I also do this on the side, as I have a fulltime job. I hope to go fulltime once I establish a steady flow of work. The job looks pretty straight forward. The attic is completly open (no insulation). I shouldn't have to go in the crawl space at all. I don't know does it sound like I am making excuses for my bid...probably. I haven't submitted my bid yet so I guess I will rework it and see what I get. I just don't want to lose job because he has enough work to keep me busy fulltime. Thanks again guys for all the input.
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Sounds low to me, too. He can certainly keep you busy full time, especially if you work for peanuts. Price is off by at least 50% for me. However, if you are doing it "on the side", your overhead is next to nothing, so you may not be too far off.

If you can do the work with no problem, you should be able to figure your time, material, and overhead to determine your price.

[ January 07, 2006, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: j_erickson ]
 
Re: Pricing?

Originally posted by velocity:
I just don't want to lose job because he has enough work to keep me busy fulltime.
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Sure he does
:roll:

I think we can all say we have come across this type of GC...he wants a low price with the promise of additional work...don't fall for that trap.

Start by giving prices that make YOU money - not the GC. In time, if the work is there, you can always offer a discount.
 
Re: Pricing?

I agree with Cletic.

Your price seems low to me too, but when I broke out and started on my own I made the same mistake. I bid low on a promise of more work. "Got a big one soon". Working by myself I barely made scale wages. Next job, I bumpted it up a little. He dickered with me, and we settled with a little lower price. Next job, I bumpted it up again and he let the job to someone else. Latter he called again, had another job that was gonna be a big one but first was this little thing with out much money in it. I said, "No thanks!"

I had rather close the doors and work for another shop, than work for nothing.
 
Re: Pricing?

This is what I mean when I say it's important to know who you are bidding against. If I go to a job and find out that I'm bidding against people doing side work, I don't even bother to bid the job. The problem with side work is that it can only be done as side work, it will not pay enough for you to run a business. That said, if Velocity bids the work at a reasonable rate then he will not get the job because he will be bidding against others doing side work. Velocity I say bid the job at whatever you feel comfortable with since you can only lose a little time ( employed ) and use it as a learning experience. When you decide to go full time it's a lot harder to do cut rate work so it's better to learn early. Keep track of your hours and expenses and see if you make enough to run a business ( overhead expenses ).
 
Re: Pricing?

I agree with cdslotz. do a complete materail take off of al parts etc. do a take off on any itmes that you need to demo such as devise panels. wiring etc. It takes time to do the demo. I add 20% mark up on material on all bids. then add your over head and profit. dont forget about mobilztion and start up time. you should figure out how time you will spend p[urcahsing materials and settting up the job such as unloading matrail form your truck also waht up clean up time. In some parts of Denver,Colorado metro Area jursdications charge a use tax( slaes tax on materials arond 1-2% of job value ) then you have to turn around and make sure you supplier's do not charge you sales tax for that are.on bigger jobs I add a 2% on labor for tools. I did a rewire last year with a new 150 amp service house was around 900 square foot. job cost was around $10,000.00 hosue was a 2 bedroom 1 bath with dinning room , living room and partally finshed basement. your pricee seems very low. Be care full of contractors that say if you give them a low pric e then they will give you more work. I learned my lesson on that.
 
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a good friend of mine who does more side work than he does on a 40 hour work week told me on a remodel bid $10-$12 per recp. and $7.00 per amp on service change. thats with the custmer buying all the material. and you doing the work.
 
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