Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

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pfalcon

pfalcon

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Indiana
I am working at a large industrial site, heavy metal fab mainly. The shop committee came up with this statement:

:confused: "Prints in electrical enclosures pose a fire hazard. Therefore all documentation needs to be removed from the cabinets." :confused:

NFPA-79 requires a print pocket; it also implies, it's not explicit, that the only documentation to be found in an electrical enclosure are electrical schematics.

I am looking for any other information supporting or refuting the shop committee statement. Either way works.

Thanks for your citations.
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

I can't cite any codes or standards on this issue, but I am interested in other responses. I have had this same discussion with a safety director I used to work with in an industrial plant. My argument was that the paper that these dwg's are printed on is not flammable or volatile, they aren't just going to burst into flames. If there was a fire in the enclosure that was big enough to ignite the paper we got bigger problems than just that paper on fire.
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Our wiring diagrams may be printed on just about any kind of paper. This paper is flamable but I question the fire hazard issue. The drawings only present a fire hazard if a fire errupts due to a short circuit or arc flash event. I can't imagine any other "normal" events in the enclosure that could cause a paper drawing to ignite. If the inside of the enclosure is getting hot enough to reach flash point for the paper, then as Todd indicated, there are much bigger problems to deal with.

Bob
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

While I would not reccomend stuffing a panel full of paper. We leave notes and drawings all the time.

Some of the notes say "spare wires to XXXXXX"

I agree that, if the wires get hot enought to ignite the paper, they will have already done dammage to the conductors.
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Thank you. I appreciate the replies I have received. These reflect the discussions we have had locally. I will keep watching the thread for awhile but I expect the NEC is silent on this.

Thanks again,
Wayne
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Once you leave the premises wiring and enter utilization equipment, the NEC is usually not the correct code to use. Get copies of NFPA79 and NFPA70B for more resources.

Also where you talking about paper in the door pockets or the oilsoaked stuff tucked between the motor starters and fuses?
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Thanks Jim,

I agree with your assessment. The majority of the NEC doesn't apply to the industrial environment but quite a bit does sneak through.

I've pawed through the -79 several times and only found what I mentioned before. We've had others go through the -70E. I don't have current access to the -70B but can get that corrected.

The contaminents we know are a definite no-no. It's the job documentation that came under debate - prints, manuals, program disks, etc. The shop committee claimed they had found a prohibition in the code; but they couldn't cite the reference or even the book :roll: . Naturally it then fell on us to prove or, in this case, disprove the prohibition. The NEC is just one of the sources we have to check.

Frankly this debate should have been DOA but there are plenty of folks on both sides of the house that want to pull the prints. A lot of strange bedfellows that normally can't agree on anything.
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

When did facility buy this equipment? We have specs for machines we buy.

NFPA 79 requires a print pocket. Ask them what purpose that print pocket is supposed to serve? :D
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Thanks Larry,

We did inform them that the -79 required a print pocket; this therefore inferring that keeping electrical schematics in a cabinet is common practice. We still have to go through this exercise.

I don't know, maybe they think it's a pocket protector for tools :p .
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Gee, If I didn't know better, I'd think that you worked in same facility as I do. :)
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Good luck.

It is very hard to prove a negative. Especially one like "I think it is somewhere, you need to prove it isn't".

Yes, some of the NEC might apply. But even the new article 409 is mainly only concerned with overcurrent protection including short circuits.

[ January 19, 2006, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: jim dungar ]
 
Re: Prints in cabinet a fire hazard?

Wayne, ask the committee what they would do with the paper inside NM cables. :roll:
 
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