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frenchelectrican said:
Dang,... you really drop my jaw what your remark about the deaf peoples

and let you know that i am almost total deaf a serve hard of hearing and i been in the bussines for almost 20 freaking years and i have no one complain to me.

there are few things that deaf peoples are good is picking up viberations much faster than hearing peoples and we allready trained to use the eyes more than the ears.

and i work on alot of large diesel engines and the noise dont affect me at all. to me it sound a whisper to me that how profounded deaf i am.

i know i heard alot of company dont want to hire deaf peoples due this famous statement " cant hear "

and the other good advange what deaf peoples have is good sign langunge [ hand talking ] we can talk pretty good distance over the noisy everoment you try that with shouting how far you can hear over the noise ??

the other thing with deaf workers they are very focoused workers they genrally don't get distracted with noise much but will spot the sisuation pretty fast with sight.

if you want more question on this one.,, just speak up i will be happy to answer more question here.

Merci, Marc

P.S. i know 3 diffrent sign langunges , speak in french , allready know the code in French electrical code , NEC code of course.

Marc, obviously you made the best of a non ideal situation. But I still wouldn't hire you. None of the "plusses" you've listed enable you to hear "LOOK OUT!" on the jobsite.
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Marc, obviously you made the best of a non ideal situation. But I still wouldn't hire you. None of the "plusses" you've listed enable you to hear "LOOK OUT!" on the jobsite.

What century are you living in?

Here in MA I am all but certain that not hiring someone based on lack of hearing would result in a lawsuit.
 
iwire said:
What century are you living in?

I'm living in this century, where noise on a construction site, and verbal warnings still exist.
Here in MA I am all but certain that not hiring someone based on lack of hearing would result in a lawsuit.

Anyone can file a lawsuit. The appealant would have no prima facia case.

You see iWire, that is the problem with being P.C. and not understanding the equal opportunity employment laws. Hiring a deaf person on a construction job where you feel their health welfare and safety is at risk, or their handicap presents a hazard to others is legal, especially when there is no way to make a "reasonable accomodation."

If you have carpal tunnel, the right tools can be had to work around your problem. If you can't hear, you can't hear. And you can't hear me say LOOK OUT.

I once laid off a female apprentice for being incompetant - "requires constant supervision" and "unsuitable for the electrical industry." She claimed racial and sexual discrimination, but when taken to task she lost. For 4 years of apprenticeship she skated and got away with it because she thought, and probably not too far off base - that nobody would want to risk a sexual or racial discrimination claim. I simply documented her actions. (Or inactions, as it were.) I was able to prove she couldn't accomplish a single task on her own. And when unsupervised, would leave her work area and dawdle. She spent more time in the bathroom than working.

Many people have a misunderstanding of the eeoc laws, and there are plenty of people looking to skate by under the presumption that they're "untouchable."
 
Can you point out to the OSHA reg that requires worker be able to hear?

LawnGuyLandSparky said:
You see iWire, that is the problem with being P.C. and not understanding the equal opportunity employment laws.

Here it is for my area

(5) Unlawful Employment Practices With Respect To Handicapped Individuals.

(a) The term "handicap" means:

1. a physical or mental impairment which substantially limits one or more major life activities of a person;

2. a record of having such impairment; or

3. being regarding as having such impairment. The term "handicapped person" means any person who has a handicap. The term "major life activities" means functions, including, but not limited to, caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning and working.

(b) The term "qualified handicapped person" means a handicapped person who is capable of performing the essential functions of the position, with or without reasonable accommodation.

(c) An accommodation is "reasonable" if it does not impose undue hardship on the employer.

(d) It is unlawful for any employer, personally or through an agent, to dismiss from employment, or refuse to hire, rehire or advance in employment or otherwise discriminate against a qualified handicapped person because of his or her handicap.

(e) In determining whether an accommodation would impose an undue hardship on the conduct of the employer's business, factors to be considered include:

1. the overall size of the employer's business with respect to the number of employees, number and type of facilities, and size of budget or available assets;

2. the type of the employer's operation, including the compensation and structure of the employer's workforce; and
The following text is effective 12/29/95

3. the nature and cost of the accommodation needed.

(f) Any physical or mental job requirement with respect to hiring, promotion, demotion or dismissal from employment or any other change in employment status or responsibilities shall be functionally related to the specific job or jobs for which the individual is being considered and shall be consistent with the safe and lawful performance of the job.

Yes there is some room for interpretation.

But to say any deaf person is unqualified to work on construction site IMO is well beyond reasonable interpretation of the local laws.
 
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LawnGuyLandSparky said:
None of the "plusses" you've listed enable you to hear "LOOK OUT!" on the jobsite.
Seriously, I don't get it. By the time the guy dropping the object has the wits to yell a warning, and if providentially the guy on the ground has a chance to hear the warning, then there are four possible outcomes:

1. The victim looks up, to see which way to dodge, and catches it in his teeth, compromising the effectiveness of the hard hat.
2. The victim does not look up, takes evasive action and jumps into the path of the falling object.
3. The victim happens to leap out of the way without injury.
4. Since there's always people yelling and making a racket anyway, the victim who can hear perfectly well doesn't hear the warning, or recognize it's directed at him, so he does nothing and either gets hit or doesn't.

I really don't put a lot of stock in emergency verbal warnings when gravity is involved. Gravity is really quick, and we are very slow, IMO.

I think the biggest objection to headphones and hearing impairment is having to repeat yourself on occasion - which I've found usually happens anyway. The headphones just call attention to the repetition, IMO.
 
Construction Sites and Employing The Deaf !

Construction Sites and Employing The Deaf !

frenchelectrican said:
Dang,... you really drop my jaw what your remark about the deaf peoples

and let you know that i am almost total deaf a serve hard of hearing and i been in the bussines for almost 20 freaking years and i have no one complain to me.

there are few things that deaf peoples are good is picking up viberations much faster than hearing peoples and we allready trained to use the eyes more than the ears.

and i work on alot of large diesel engines and the noise dont affect me at all. to me it sound a whisper to me that how profounded deaf i am.

i know i heard alot of company dont want to hire deaf peoples due this famous statement " cant hear "

and the other good advange what deaf peoples have is good sign langunge [ hand talking ] we can talk pretty good distance over the noisy everoment you try that with shouting how far you can hear over the noise ??

the other thing with deaf workers they are very focoused workers they genrally don't get distracted with noise much but will spot the sisuation pretty fast with sight.


if you want more question on this one.,, just speak up i will be happy to answer more question here.


Merci, Marc

P.S. i know 3 diffrent sign langunges , speak in french , allready know the code in French electrical code , NEC code of course.


When you consider the personal safety issues, why would a deaf person want to work in such a dangerous field as is the construction trade anyway ?
Especially when you consider the office positions available for those that do already have experience in the trade such as estimators, material purchasers, etcetera .
Carl :)
 
Carl Ewing said:
When you consider the personal safety issues, why would a deaf person want to work in such a dangerous field as is the construction trade anyway ?
I imagine food, shelter, transportation and spending cash, same as the rest of us. ;)

I couldn't get a job in the positions you described, myself.

I look at it this way: I have no college education, no educational debts, and I make more money than my father does today; and he has a 50 year headstart on me. This is a very generous, lucrative trade, even for us knuckle-dragging peons, so I don't question anyone for wanting to get in on it. :)
 
All you have to do is read some of the French Marc's posts and you'll figure out he's one smart cookie. I've learned a lot from him, and wouldn't hesitate for a second to hire a deaf man if he was as sharp as him. Probably wouldn't be a good fit as a service electrician (due to the necessary communication issues with the customer), but a construction or planned maintenance electrician would be a better fit.
 
I apologize if it offends you !

I apologize if it offends you !

georgestolz said:
I imagine food, shelter, transportation and spending cash, same as the rest of us. ;)

I couldn't get a job in the positions you described, myself.

I look at it this way: I have no college education, no educational debts, and I make more money than my father does today; and he has a 50 year headstart on me. This is a very generous, lucrative trade, even for us knuckle-dragging peons, so I don't question anyone for wanting to get in on it. :)

Hey,
I didn't intend to offend anyone ... Sorry if I inadvertingly did so !
Carl :smile:
 
The hall sent me out a guy with one arm. I couldnt believe it. I also could not believe how very productive he and his long time tool buddy were. I would take them back again on the type of job we had.
 
mdshunk said:
All you have to do is read some of the French Marc's posts and you'll figure out he's one smart cookie. I've learned a lot from him, and wouldn't hesitate for a second to hire a deaf man if he was as sharp as him. Probably wouldn't be a good fit as a service electrician (due to the necessary communication issues with the customer), but a construction or planned maintenance electrician would be a better fit.

Thanks MD.,,

In fact i did work as service electrician most of my reguar comusters do understand my nature of hard of hearing and i can commuate with them without much issue because i have hearing aid to help me to hear more better. few good comusters some went even one step further they send me the text message just short and driect and that useally take care of that.

some did all they have to just point to the particaur item from there i take care the rest from there.

For others whom may reading this.,,

I know i can see your side of view of safety there and some of constuction site the noise is very unbearable and try to talk veribally in
some area it is almost nonexsting unless you are on someone else's ear.


Qoute:
When you consider the personal safety issues, why would a deaf person want to work in such a dangerous field as is the construction trade anyway ?
Especially when you consider the office positions available for those that do already have experience in the trade such as estimators, material purchasers, etcetera .
Carl :smile:

Well i could do that but myself i can do part but only one quirks is the phone calls that part i can handle it ok but i rather keep my whole body move around and i like to challange something diffrent everyday almost nothing is routine at all.

just off the topic for a min and i do drive hevey service truck that come with 13 speed tranny i know some of ya wonding how i will know when i shift it i go by vibeartions that how i can tell when i change gears. yeah i can heard as well but for most normal siuation i used my eyes to scan around pretty good.

anyway i am glad that topic did came up i know some feel not too comfortable with this topic i can understand that.

and with a good company some case they will go a step further to keep a good worker on hand and some case i know, it is true with this.


Thanks for your time and have nice Holidays guys and ladies

Merci, Marc
 
Merry Christmas Marc and thanks for bringing your view point into this. :)



BTW...I agree with mdshunk, it would be ridiculous not hire Marc, he is a talented electrician and very knowledgeable. I have been reading his posts for many years now.
 
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