Problem with gfci for festival lighting.

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andyrq1

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I don't have enough background with this problem to figure it out:
We're providing power to a temporary structure for an arts festival that has stage lighting and amps for music.
The power source to our temporary panel is fed by a generator.
The problem we've encountered is that the dimming modules for the lights trip the gfci breaker.
My question is can I get around using a gfci breaker to feed the lighting since the generator (seperately derived system) is the power source?
Or could we get around using a gfci if we had an assured equipment grounding program?
Kind of shooting in the dark here, just not enough experience with this scenario.
Thanks for any input.

Andy
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
how big is this generator ? Is the netral and ground connected together at the gen.?
If it trips there is something wrong and needs fixed
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I agree,,.. I would not want to have to answer the,..

" The GFCI was tripping and you ,,....knowing this,.. removed it,.. why did you do that?? "

Question after the festival turns into a memorial service . Dramatic I know but I would want to know why the safety device is doing it's thing before I would remove it..
 
I know some 'dimmers' acutally use the 'ground' as their neutral, (the fancy ones that light up and all). others just use the load as their neutral.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Is there a code that says festival lighting must be GFCI protected? Iam not near my book so.....
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maybe 525.23 ?? I don't think we have enough info ,... but they should not trip regardless ,..so removal could open this guy up to a larger liability ,..IE he is removing them because they are doing what they are intended to do ,.. I would not advise it ..
 
M. D. said:
maybe 525.23 ?? I don't think we have enough info ,... but they should not trip regardless ,..so removal could open this guy up to a larger liability ,..IE he is removing them because they are doing what they are intended to do ,.. I would not advise it ..
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I never said remove it but it may be tripping because of some generator issues. If that is the only GFCI on the circuit I would try another circuit with a GFCI and see what happens.

I have heard of the podco power causing problems with arc faults. I don't understand how but I would guess that the gen could be causing issues with the lights.
 
Dennis I know you did not , but that is pretty much what he is asking when he says

My question is can I get around using a gfci breaker to feed the lighting since the generator (seperately derived system) is the power source?.....


....Or could we get around using a gfci if we had an assured equipment grounding program?
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I also know we don't know enough to properly answer him.. I also assume he thinks GFCI protection is required ,.by the nature of his questions
 
Thanks much for all of the responses.
You'll be glad to know that we didn't unhook the gfci breaker, much to the chagrin of the guys putting on the show. It's not worth risking someones life or our company so they can have their show.
Bottom line is that until I can identify why the gfci is tripping then I'm not comfortable unhooking it. It was frustrating on my part because I didn't have a solid answer as to why the gfci wouldn't hold. For testing purposes, we hooked up the modules with a standard breaker and everything worked fine.
A few of the theories thrown around our shop were that the dimming modules may cause the tripping of the gfci or perhaps inconsistent voltage from the generator.
Then one of the guys mentioned that generators are separately derived systems and have different rules for gfcis. I couldn't find anything in the code book that validates his statement.
So that's why I threw those theories out there on my original post. Truth is, I just don't know.
Again, thanks for the responses.

Andy
 
Thanks for all of the responses.
You'll be glad to know that we didn't remove the gfci protection because we couldn't exactly say why it was tripping. So basically the show can't go on until we identify the problem, much to the chagrin of the event staff.
We did use a standard breaker for testing purposes, and everything held. We also removed one switch leg at a time from the dimming modules to isolate the problem, but the gfci would still trip.
That's what led us to believe that the problem may be with how the modules dim, or perhaps there is a slight variation in voltage off of the generator that could cause problems with a gfci circuit (?)
One of the guys at the shop mentioned that generators are separately derived systems and have different rules concerning gfcis. I couldn't find anything in the code book that said anything like that.
One other item of note that sort of raises a red flag with me is that the manufacturers wiring diagram has all of the modules on one leg of the 240 V circuit (the other leg is used for additional modules on larger systems) and am wondering if this could cause any problems with the gfci tripping. Would an imbalanced load on a 2 pole gfci make it trip? I don't think so, but I'm trying to think of everything.
I called the manufacturer but of course they said they haven't had any problems like this.
Great.

Thanks again,
Andy
 
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