Problem with local inspeactor

[mgookin]

With 8 items you're fortunate he didn't just write "not ready" on the inspection sheet. Inspectors are not there to write your punch list. Your work is expected to be complete and compliant. You're a professional; that's why there are licensing laws.

 

[augie47]

With 8 items you're fortunate he didn't just write "not ready" on the inspection sheet. Inspectors are not there to write your punch list. Your work is expected to be complete and compliant. You're a professional; that's why there are licensing laws.

Great Point !

 

[mjf]

With 8 items you're fortunate he didn't just write "not ready" on the inspection sheet. Inspectors are not there to write your punch list. Your work is expected to be complete and compliant. You're a professional; that's why there are licensing laws.

Great Point !

It is a great point. Do keep in mind there are many area's that do not have licensing laws, which, BTW, does not negate the great point!!

 

[kwired]

With 8 items you're fortunate he didn't just write "not ready" on the inspection sheet. Inspectors are not there to write your punch list. Your work is expected to be complete and compliant. You're a professional; that's why there are licensing laws.

Great Point !

Maybe so, but also depends on how the inspection process works in the area. If I get a correction notice there is an automatic $50.00 reinspection fee, and additional reinspections of the same thing is $100.00.

How would you like to throw $50.00, then 100, and another 100 plus any of your own costs at something if you are not really sure what is being flagged in the first place?

I would sure like to know what the problem is before having to pay the fees, let alone considering the possible costs of holding up a project. These inspectors need to know this is not a game and is a way to make a living for the contractors. If they want to make a game of it for homeowners doing their own wiring or other non qualified people then that is fine with me, but be professional when dealing with other professionals.

 

[ramIII]

Maybe so, but also depends on how the inspection process works in the area. If I get a correction notice there is an automatic $50.00 reinspection fee, and additional reinspections of the same thing is $100.00.

How would you like to throw $50.00, then 100, and another 100 plus any of your own costs at something if you are not really sure what is being flagged in the first place?

I would sure like to know what the problem is before having to pay the fees, let alone considering the possible costs of holding up a project. These inspectors need to know this is not a game and is a way to make a living for the contractors. If they want to make a game of it for homeowners doing their own wiring or other non qualified people then that is fine with me, but be professional when dealing with other professionals.

What about the inspector that comes to inspect,cannot find any violations, then makes the comment I guess I'm going to have to pass you. Then makes the statement that he hasn't done his job because they pay him to find violations.

 

[Little Bill]

Maybe so, but also depends on how the inspection process works in the area. If I get a correction notice there is an automatic $50.00 reinspection fee, and additional reinspections of the same thing is $100.00.

How would you like to throw $50.00, then 100, and another 100 plus any of your own costs at something if you are not really sure what is being flagged in the first place?

I would sure like to know what the problem is before having to pay the fees, let alone considering the possible costs of holding up a project. These inspectors need to know this is not a game and is a way to make a living for the contractors. If they want to make a game of it for homeowners doing their own wiring or other non qualified people then that is fine with me, but be professional when dealing with other professionals.

That may be the problem since the OP said the HO pulled the permit. He may not know a contractor did the work.

 

[Gregg Harris]

What about the inspector that comes to inspect,cannot find any violations, then makes the comment I guess I'm going to have to pass you. Then makes the statement that he hasn't done his job because they pay him to find violations.

Technically the county does pay the inspector to find violations, for safety reason.

There is a huge misconception that the inspection process is to generate capitol gain for issuing permits, inspections and re -inspection fees for failed inspections, not the case.

 

[ramIII]

Technically the county does pay the inspector to find violations, for safety reason.

There is a huge misconception that the inspection process is to generate capitol gain for issuing permits, inspections and re -inspection fees for failed inspections, not the case.

I thought the inspectors job was to insure that you do a safe,code compliant,professional installation. I don't think he should have the attitude he has failed in his job if he can't find a violation.

 

[growler]

Hello Gentleman,
I have a problem with my local inspector. I took over a residencial home build from a kid who was working under I guess a friend of his who holds the licence.

I was not there for the inspection, the homeowner was. The permit is in the homeowner's name.

(Barely related side note: In our State the Homeowner can not pull a permit and then not do the wiring themselves but your State may be different. I mention this only because if the inspector starts out knowingly under false info it may well influence his inspection).

I find that most inspectors don't like it if you follow them around but it's still a good idea to be on the job unless you are sure there will be no problems.

At the end of the inspection most inspectors will be happy enough to explain what they have found that's wrong and they will expect you to know what they are talking about.


I also find that taking over a job from some else is always harder and more trouble than doing the work yourself from the start.

I don't know the law in New Jersey but it would be a violation here to work under a homeowner permit.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't know where people get the mind set that inspectors like to write correction notices. Which do you think makes my day go easier, signing the job card or going out and sitting in the hot truck looking up code sections and listening to the contractor tell you that 1) you're the only one calling that 2) they just let me do this in ______ 3) can you come back later today? 4) can you just sign the card and I'll do this before I leave.

In answer to a direct question, no I do not always write code sections. If you used cable and I write "NMC cable is not secured per it's NEC requirements", I'm pretty sure that you should know what that means. Now yes it could be by the box or in the attic, but I took the time to find it now it's your turn.

I'm of the other school about contractors, I want them there (hey give me a stapel there) and I don't mind chit chat. I've been doing this a long time and have a pretty set routine for most things. Remember I don't need to look at everything, I'm not looking at all the stuff that's right, I'm looking to see if anything got missed, but then I have the reputation of being able to see the one missing KO seal half way across a 200,000 sq ft building.:happyyes:

 

[growler]

Really?!?! Staples??? Yes I know, every 18/20 inches(or whatever the actual codes requires. I install more staples then I'm sure are required" I take great pride in straight, not twisted wire runs.
My exact question is this, is the inspector required to list the exact codes that were in violation?

"every 18/20 inches or whatever the actual code requires".


It really doesn't sound like you are very familiar with the NEC.

Putting in a lot of staples doesn't cut it because you need to know just where they are required.

If you know how the cables are to be secured you should be able to walk the job and spot the violations listed by the inspector.

 

[ramIII]

I don't know where people get the mind set that inspectors like to write correction notices. Which do you think makes my day go easier, signing the job card or going out and sitting in the hot truck looking up code sections and listening to the contractor tell you that 1) you're the only one calling that 2) they just let me do this in ______ 3) can you come back later today? 4) can you just sign the card and I'll do this before I leave.

In answer to a direct question, no I do not always write code sections. If you used cable and I write "NMC cable is not secured per it's NEC requirements", I'm pretty sure that you should know what that means. Now yes it could be by the box or in the attic, but I took the time to find it now it's your turn.

I'm of the other school about contractors, I want them there (hey give me a stapel there) and I don't mind chit chat. I've been doing this a long time and have a pretty set routine for most things. Remember I don't need to look at everything, I'm not looking at all the stuff that's right, I'm looking to see if anything got missed, but then I have the reputation of being able to see the one missing KO seal half way across a 200,000 sq ft building.:happyyes:

I think where people get the mindset is because of the situation I described where the inspector felt that he had not done his job because he could not find a violation. There are more of them out there than you think. Luckily in the areas we do most of our work the inspectors we work with have the attitude you describe yourself to have. It seems when we go to work in the northern part of our state there are a lot more inspectors of the type I described.

 

[__dan]

Don't you think that the inspector should have AT-LEAST pointed out the problem with the staple/staples to the homeowner? Turns out that the inspection began with the homeowner following the inspector but the inspector told the homeowner to "Please let me inspect by myself"
Guys, I have the up-most respect for all inspector's, but this guy is a real AH.
Thank you,,

There is theory in the law. If wrongdoers are punished, it is a deterrent to all wrongdoers everywhere for that type of violation "crime does not pay".

If wrongdoers are not held accountable, it is an incentive for more wrongdoers, their finding "crime does pay". Also, the righteous would be punished by having to compete at a disadvantage with the crooks, cheaters, and fakers. If wrongdoing is the accepted convention, making a play out of bounds yields profit, the good and bad players would both have to compete on the expanded and less predictable playing field.

That is the ideal case, which is not happening in practice. Just look at the 2008 crisis in mortgage and securities fraud, where the billions in losses became so many that the Federal Reserve and the Treasury both had to be looted for trillions, to pay the profits contracted for in the scheme. There were no prosecutions for bold and willful fraud, but millions of homeowners lost their homes in the making of the bubble and its bailout by the taxpayer (the bondholders were bailed out, as always).

You also have a question of attitude, what tude do you give and expect to receive from the inspector. The inspector, dealing with the general public and their deeply rooted shortcomings, usually do not have sufficiently thick skin. People generally like getting their butt kissed and some like it too much, or are addicted to it and must have it. Some contractors may naturally think they are the expert and do not like being told where to put staples or to not share the bath outlet with the kitchen circuit.

Generally, the power mad bureaucracy is something to fear. They will cost you your life or your assets, just ask Malthus. You really cannot exercise your discretion and choose when the inspector is punishing wrongdoing, or when he is just punishing all, the good with the bad, just because the population itself is too large and there needs to be less of them (Malthus).

Just bang in twice as many staples and nail plates as the inspector asked for, and when you see him, tell him how young and smart and good looking he is.

 

[growler]

Just bang in twice as many staples and nail plates as the inspector asked for, and when you see him, tell him how young and smart and good looking he is.

Why on earth would you want to do that?

Your job as a contractor it first to know the code, then to do code compliant work. After that you can stand your ground.

When you take over a job from someone else you have to go back and inspect every box in the building and that's why it's so much trouble in the first place. Now, four days is not long enough to completely rework (rough-in) a 3600 sq ft house( one man) so he probably missed a few things. It's easy to do when you think that you have already corrected a 100 mistakes and there were actually a 108 violations. The inspector isn't looking for the one's that you corrected but for the one's you missed.


If he was smart enough to do this job at time and materials there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[__dan]

Why on earth would you want to do that?

I guess I was being a little facetious. I personally don't have the butt kissing skills, even when my life depends on it and suffer for it.

Is is difficult to finish someone else's work. Usually because they underbid it and the quality of the work reflects that. They don't know what they are doing, in the eyes of a licensed pro. But they set the market price low and the owner remembers that. It becomes difficult to change the owner's mind to pay a lot more for code quality work. The owner wanted cheap and got that.

I am always never there for residential inspection. I have the homeowner schedule and attend. Just my routine.

The inspector is usually looking for the general standard of work and who to blame, hold liable, for deficiencies. That part has to be clear, name and license on the permit, who did the work. Homeowners pulling permits for work done by others is a big red flag. Also the law will assign liability to the license holder. Down the road when there is a damages claim and they ask who did the work, the owner says "Mr. Craig List does all my work". Well if Mr List does not have a license, the liability will fall on the guy who is licensed and worked nearby the negligent occurrence of others.

That's liability 101, which the owner tries to cheat on by saying "I wired this for you, I just want you to fix it and make it pass inspection". When there is a damage claim, he will be sure to place blame somewhere else.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have not read all the comments but I would say -- call the ahj and see what he wants.

 

[goldstar]

I find that most inspectors don't like it if you follow them around but it's still a good idea to be on the job unless you are sure there will be no problems.

I agree. I'll give a customer a price to do work but if he follows me around like a puppy fearing abandonment I tell them it's extra $$.

I don't know the law in New Jersey but it would be a violation here to work under a homeowner permit.

Just to clarify regarding laws in NJ. If I seal an electrical permit for a job then I'm responsible for only the electrical work on that job, irrespective of whether or not I paid for the permit (homeowners can file and pay for the permits if they choose). There are some cases (like a gen set installation) where I have to take the job as a GC. So, in that case I seal the electrical permit, I hire a plumbing contractor who seals his permit, I fill out a construction form and there's a cardboard manilla Construction Permit Application jacket (like this one http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions/codes/forms/pdf_ucc_stdforms/ucc_f100_cpa.pdf ) that has to be filled out. One of the questions on the front of that jacket is "who is the responsible party once construction has begun". In this case that would be me and I would sign the inside of the jacket as the homeowner's agent. However, if the homeowner chooses to be the GC then he assumes all the liability for the total project and I'm only responsible for the electrical portion.

Now, also in NJ a homeowner is permitted do electrical work in his own house but, he can't (by law) go to his neighbor's house and do electrical work (unless he's just helping his neighbor and his neighbor is assuming all the responsibility). By the same token if a journeyman electrician has XX years of experience working in the trade but does not have a license in NJ or a valid business permit he may not contract any electrical work with the public. In addition, any person (even a journeyman electrician) that owns a commercial building or an apartment building may not (by law) do electrical work in those building unless they have a valid NJ electrical license and have an active business permit.

Didn't mean to pirate this thread but I hope this helps.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I think where people get the mindset is because of the situation I described where the inspector felt that he had not done his job because he could not find a violation. There are more of them out there than you think. Luckily in the areas we do most of our work the inspectors we work with have the attitude you describe yourself to have. It seems when we go to work in the northern part of our state there are a lot more inspectors of the type I described.

I've never understood the us against them attitude (All contractors are liars and cheats and it's my job to prove it). The way our department works and passes the word on to contractors where we can, and many inspectors would be mindful to take heed, is that we work for you. You paid me to come out and verify that you did your job to code. If you don't want us there, then simply don't pull permits, I do not advise this course of action at the ramifications are much worse, but since you did invite us there to verify your work, then don't be upset when we do our job. Now an inspector who never writes you a correction notice is not really doing you any favors (unless you're really that good) nor is one that writes one every time, just to write one. As someone else said we're all just human, so as with different type of inspectors there are different types of contractors, those that argue every time they get a correction notice and those that say thanks I'll call you out when I have it taken care of.

 

[texie]

I've never understood the us against them attitude (All contractors are liars and cheats and it's my job to prove it). The way our department works and passes the word on to contractors where we can, and many inspectors would be mindful to take heed, is that we work for you. You paid me to come out and verify that you did your job to code. If you don't want us there, then simply don't pull permits, I do not advise this course of action at the ramifications are much worse, but since you did invite us there to verify your work, then don't be upset when we do our job. Now an inspector who never writes you a correction notice is not really doing you any favors (unless you're really that good) nor is one that writes one every time, just to write one. As someone else said we're all just human, so as with different type of inspectors there are different types of contractors, those that argue every time they get a correction notice and those that say thanks I'll call you out when I have it taken care of.

Well said.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Hello Gentleman,
I have a problem with my local inspector. I took over a residencial home build from a kid who was working under I guess a friend of his who holds the licence.
After spending 4 days removing this kids "God All-full" work, it was time for the "rough inspection"
I was not there for the inspection, the homeowner was. The permit is in the homeowner's name.
The inspection found 8 failed items. The one that kills me the most is, "staples not installed in accordance with NEC".

Guys, I have the up-most respect for all inspector's, but this guy is a real AH.
Thank you,,

if the work is to be inspected, then a large part of my profitability is how
the inspector feels about my work in general. if he's happy with what he
sees, and sees good stuff consistently, then inspections usually just come
down to a visit, a chat, and a quick look around. anything he has an issue
with if not able to be resolved on the spot, is handled without having a
re inspect, because i've taken the time to make sure that he knows i'm
not gonna lie to him or try to put something over on him.

'cause going forward, i'm going to be dealing with both he, and his
co workers, hopefully for a while, 'cause i'm not ready to retire yet.

if i don't have a good working relationship with the inspectors in my
area, that is MY fault, and more damaging to my profitability than
an unstocked truck.

it starts with a rough underground inspection, as soon as i have a
permit number to call on and schedule. when he comes out, i ask
for 20 minutes of his time, and we go thru a once over of the entire
job, and find out what his preferences are... how he likes to see
stuff done. everyone has personal preferences, supported or not
by the code, and i want to know what his are before i order material
or do much of anything.

the best that has ever worked out for me was in chico, ca about 25
years ago.. i had a bank remodel, and as soon as i had the ticket number,
called for a courtesy inspection. when the guy showed up, we spent about
half an hour walking the job, with a pipe by pipe account of everything
i had planned, with questions and answers going back and forth fast.

afterwards, i thanked him, and he asked for my inspection package, and
signed the final off... :jawdrop:

i called him a couple times while the job was running, and he stopped by
to take a peek, but that was about it.

also, as was mentioned a couple places, i would not be mentioning much
of anything on an internet forum that could be identified with a specific
location or person. just sayin'... i scrub any embedded info in photos i post
online for that reason as well.

ya have to ask yourself if what you just wrote, you'd want your best customer
reading, or your inspector for that matter.

i had an account on ET that i asked to be disabled, and erased to the extent
that is possible, for that reason. not that i'd said anything on there that i'd
really regret, but the simple fact that i was there at all. i wasn't contributing
anything worth reading, and the whole flavor of that forum is pretty unprofessional.

and i was sitting there one night reading thru a pail of swill there, and had
a thought.... i've got some excellent commercial and industrial customers now,
and it's taken several years to find them.... and what would their reaction be
to some of the stuff i was reading and posting on?

just sayin'... it's a small internet.