Problem with Local POCO

Status
Not open for further replies.
zbang said:
I was thinking that, too. Almost everything with a neutral he works on could be considered MWBCs, at least theoretically.
Click to expand...

Multiwire circuit - yes, branch circuit - usually no when it comes to POCO work.

flatlander said:
Who said the POCO touched the customers wire. However if the POCO chooses to feed same hot for both legs and the neutral has a problem then the POCO is going to have a problem.
Click to expand...
Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.
 
kwired said:
Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.
Click to expand...

one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.:eek:
 
kwired said:
Multiwire circuit - yes, branch circuit - usually no when it comes to POCO work.

Why do you say that? If you have one "hot" and the neutral and the neutral is bad, you have an open circuit and no current flow, only problem is nothing works period. You could also have high impedance on the neutral in which case you have lower voltage across loads but at least never more than applied voltage. Not same as a 120/240 multiwire circuit with a bad neutral where you will see voltage vary both high and low across loads depending on impedance of connected loads. That high part usually does more damage than the low part in those cases.
Click to expand...
I was never thinking or referring to a lost neutral. Just was speaking of a overloaded Neutral.

hurk27 said:
one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.:eek:
Click to expand...
Wow never thought of that one.
 
hurk27 said:
one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.:eek:
Click to expand...
Those things could still happen with a bad neutral on 120/240 with most/all load on one side, but is still good to take into consideration. Same could also happen with any two wire service or separately derived system.
 
kwired said:
Those things could still happen with a bad neutral on 120/240 with most/all load on one side, but is still good to take into consideration. Same could also happen with any two wire service or separately derived system.
Click to expand...

Yep but the POCO didn't have their hands on it when it happened unlike the above, liability can be much different
 
hurk27 said:
Yep but the POCO didn't have their hands on it when it happened unlike the above, liability can be much different
Click to expand...

I'm always in favor of shifting blame to someone else whenever possible:)

Most times I have had to bypass a bad underground conductor meant laying a temp replacement on top of ground, usually was only temp for a few days max.
 
kwired said:
I'm always in favor of shifting blame to someone else whenever possible:)

Most times I have had to bypass a bad underground conductor meant laying a temp replacement on top of ground, usually was only temp for a few days max.
Click to expand...
Would you just bypass the failed conductor, on the assumption that the others were good? Or would you test the others? Or just lay multiple wires as replacement?
 
hurk27 said:
one problem that jumps out at me if a house is fed with only 120v line and neutral is if you loose the neutral at this point all the grounding will rise to 120 volts above Earth, and also the fact that the TV cable being bonded at the pole and house will have the full load of the house on it and would most likely catch fire, if it is a slab house and someone was taking a shower at the time and reached for the handle to turn off the water they would most likely be hit with the full 120 volts, being all wet standing on a tiled concrete floor it could very well be lethal.

The POCO better hope the neutral wasn't compromised when the hot was.:eek:
Click to expand...

I would think the cold water bond would keep things near a similar potential, possibly masking the effect all together, but its no guarantee. You will have a lot of current flowing through the earth and metal water pipes no doubt.
 
GoldDigger said:
Would you just bypass the failed conductor, on the assumption that the others were good? Or would you test the others? Or just lay multiple wires as replacement?
Click to expand...
Chances are I determine which conductors are good and which are bad before even considering any temp solutions. I have laid more than one temp conductor on ground before to get someone by.
 
mbrooke said:
I would think the cold water bond would keep things near a similar potential, possibly masking the effect all together, but its no guarantee. You will have a lot of current flowing through the earth and metal water pipes no doubt.
Click to expand...

If water pipe runs to neighbors place and is bonded to electrical system there, then yes it will carry all the neutral current if it has to. But you will not get much current to flow through a ground rod or most other electrodes with only 120 volts pushing it through. Has been said in this forum before - the earth is a good conductor, but it is hard to make a low resistance connection to it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top