Product testing NRTL compliance

[S'mise]

The wife bought a heated blanket and I wanted to see if it was UL or CSA listed. It had what I consider to be a Chinese knock off testing label.

I've never seen this.

Is ETL a legitimate testing laboratory?

Even if this is fine, how does large companies like Amazon get away with selling consumer products without any listing?

 

[roger]

ETL is a legitimate lab and has been around along time. I have installed medical equipment with ETL listing labels.

As far as a company selling unlisted items, is there a law saying they can't?

Roger

 

[retirede]

We used ETL on products back in the mid ‘80s. I think they were relatively new back then. I’d guess they’ve been around 40+ years.

 

[S'mise]

Ok thanks. I'm out of the loop I reckon.

I feel better knowing its listed.

I thought consumer products were supposed to be listed by a NRTL for safety?

At least in the old days, when I bought a toaster, it came with a UL marking showing it was tested and deemed safe for household use.

 

[Todd0x1]

ETL has been around forever, it is now part of Intertek. Does the label have the word intertek below the ETL? There are 2 versions of the ETL mark and both have the work intertek in them.

 

[DTan]

OSHA has a list of current NRTLs. https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html

 

[tom baker]

Washington has required product listing since 1935. But an inspector has to see the product being used. Inspector told me about an unlisted dental chair, wasn't a violation as it was unplugged...

 

[jim dungar]

For the most part, even though there are competing testing labs, there is only a single set of standards created by UL and used by the other firms.

 

[S'mise]

OK, that makes sense.
I don't recall the name but the logo looked like the one I posted.

Wow, I counted 20 different ones although UL and CSA are the only ones I really know.

I imagine i could come up with "Joe Blow industries certified" sticker and people would sleep like a baby thinking its completely safe, despite the fact it's not properly sanctioned.

@tom baker...we're talking about consumer products which shouldn't be the preview of an electrical inspector... like electrical parts or an unlisted assembly.
(Fire martial perhaps.)

In my opinion it's wrong to sell consumer electrical products without testing.

 

[Jerramundi]

In my opinion it's wrong to sell consumer electrical products without testing.

I agree.. and that's my gripe with Amazon too. I've had a few customers that want to buy their own materials off Amazon to save a buck.. and I've even turned to it once or twice to find a lesser widely available item.. but yes, you have to remember to look at the listing when buying off Amazon.

And even if it says "listed" on Amazon, it may not be. The only way to confirm it is to have an actual listing number, which they don't often provide, and look it up on, for example, UL's website to verify the listing.

But being an internet based company, they aren't subject to local laws. Some local laws dictate that a product has to be listed in order to be sold.

 

[Jraef]

...
And even if it says "listed" on Amazon, it may not be. The only way to confirm it is to have an actual listing number, which they don't often provide, and look it up on, for example, UL's website to verify the listing.

But being an internet based company, they aren't subject to local laws. Some local laws dictate that a product has to be listed in order to be sold.

I totally agree. I have seen many times on Amazon that sellers will say "Listed" and if you can drill down into details (or Google it), you find out they consider "CE" to be a listing. It is not, CE is "self evaluated", meaning there is no third party like UL, ETL or CSA testing involved, the manufacturer can attest to whether or not it meets CE requirements based on their own assessment. It's kind of like the Union of Professional Foxes certifying that a henhouse is safe and secure...

 

[Todd0x1]

I totally agree. I have seen many times on Amazon that sellers will say "Listed" and if you can drill down into details (or Google it), you find out they consider "CE" to be a listing. It is not, CE is "self evaluated", meaning there is no third party like UL, ETL or CSA testing involved, the manufacturer can attest to whether or not it meets CE requirements based on their own assessment. It's kind of like the Union of Professional Foxes certifying that a henhouse is safe and secure...

Even worse than that, is most of that CE stuff is not the real europe CE but is the 'china export' CE.

 

[Jerramundi]

I totally agree. I have seen many times on Amazon that sellers will say "Listed" and if you can drill down into details (or Google it), you find out they consider "CE" to be a listing. It is not, CE is "self evaluated", meaning there is no third party like UL, ETL or CSA testing involved, the manufacturer can attest to whether or not it meets CE requirements based on their own assessment. It's kind of like the Union of Professional Foxes certifying that a henhouse is safe and secure...

I'd wager I could put cowpies on Amazon and call them UL Listed, lol.

 

[suemarkp]

@tom baker...we're talking about consumer products which shouldn't be the preview of an electrical inspector... like electrical parts or an unlisted assembly.
(Fire martial perhaps.)

In my opinion it's wrong to sell consumer electrical products without testing.

In WA, I think it applies to anything that plugs in (50V or higher), regardless of whether it is used in a house, a business, or an industrial seetting. The problem is there is no way to enforce it unless the electrical inspector or OSHA flags it. Don't offer up a cup of coffee to an EI or OSHA inspector from an unlisted coffee maker... We are doing a lot at my employer to find all the non-NRTL things we have and eliminate or certify them.

 

[rbalex]

This is FedOSHA's current NRTL list. Hit the "More" button for any one of them to see important additional info like the actual list of products they are qualified to certify and their associated certification marks. Not all NRTLs (even UL) are qualified to certify every product. Some older NRTLs were disqualified not because they weren't actually capable but they had certain conflicts of interest; .i.e., they were both test labs and manufacturers. Some were disqualified for other reasons,

A few jurisdictions may recognize additional test labs.

 

[James L]

From what I understand ETL fees are substantially less than UL, and turn-around time is much faster with ETL.

It makes more sense for smaller manufacturers

 

[Greentagger]

Washington has required product listing since 1935. But an inspector has to see the product being used. Inspector told me about an unlisted dental chair, wasn't a violation as it was unplugged...

Ooooooh. And still in the building?

 

[S'mise]

even though there are competing testing labs, there is only a single set of standards created by UL and used by the other firms.

Not all NRTLs (even UL) are qualified to certify every product.

Huh? UL creates the standards but may not be qualified to certify their own standard?

I know UL can be a money grab to allow manufactures to put on their sticker, but it'd be nice to have one universal NRTL company.

99% of consumers only recognize the UL label, and pprobably only about 10% care.

 

[rbalex]

Huh? UL creates the standards but may not be qualified to certify their own standard?

I know UL can be a money grab to allow manufactures to put on their sticker, but it'd be nice to have one universal NRTL company.

99% of consumers only recognize the UL label, and pprobably only about 10% care.

As a matter of fact, UL doesn't create all the standards. See FedOSHAs List of Appropriate Test Standards. As I mentioned some jurisdictions may also have a few of their own preferred standards that they require to have some third-party certification. However, if we limit the discussion to consumer products only, you are probably correct.

 

[romex jockey]

As a matter of fact, UL doesn't create all the standards. See FedOSHAs List of Appropriate Test Standards. As I mentioned some jurisdictions may also have a few of their own preferred standards that they require to have some third-party certification. However, if we limit the discussion to consumer products only, you are probably correct.

that is rather debatable >>>

http://combinationafci.com/resources/doc_ieee_combination_afci.pdf

~RJ~