jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Are we talking about the same thing? Note 14-30R
From: http://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/LER3622PQ/Use and Care_EN.pdf
Proper receptacle for Dryer
- Thread starter mbrooke
- Start date
- Status
Are we talking about the same thing? Note 14-30R
From: http://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/LER3622PQ/Use and Care_EN.pdf
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
The dryer is an import, but approved for North American use. 60Hz 208-240. The original install is from the 70s with 10/3 NM and a NEMA 10-30. However, Im thinking the correct outlet for this would be a NEMA 6-30r, which is on all A/C and fast food equipment rated 208/240.
GScollins
Member
- Location
- Drumright, Oklahoma
Wouldn't the proper way to be use the jumper in the appliance to tie ground and neutral together and use a 3 wire appliance cord to the receptacle? If it was a new installation use 4 wire circuit.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
Since this appliance was designed for straight 220, I doubt that it had such a jumper. That is the root of the problem.
Most likely in its native environment one of the 220 leads was a grounded conductor.
Tapatalk!
Most likely in its native environment one of the 220 leads was a grounded conductor.
Tapatalk!
GScollins
Member
- Location
- Drumright, Oklahoma
Maybe it has a timer that uses 220 and needs no neutral, only 2 hots and a ground
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
He keeps using 240 and you are saying 220.
Can use share the manf. specs with us?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If this weren't a dwelling unit then 250.119(B)(1) would permit removing the insulation to make an EGC.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Rob you got me thinking. Still not allowed in ANY retro/change/remodel application.
(B) Multiconductor Cable. Where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation, one or more insulated conductors in a multiconductor cable, at the time of installation, shall be permitted to be permanently identified as equipment grounding conductors at each end and at every point where the conductors are accessible by one of the following means:
(1) Stripping the insulation from the entire exposed length
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
I'm with you, this should have a NEMA 6-30 cord cap and recep. if this is in fact straight 240 and not 120/240. 2 ungrounded and equipment ground. Any other would be a violation in my view.
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
That's what Im thinking. Only issue would be re-identifying the white. But keeping it would be a bigger violation the other way around.
I will take tape over stripping in case this does get changed again years from now.
Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
- Occupation
- Electrician ,contractor
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
I decided to just tape it and transfer the white to the ground bar from neutral bar. Had it been coming from the service I would just have left it but Id rather the panel remain a 4 wire feed
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
If the instructions are "vague" contact your AHJ and get an opinion.
Again do you have the instructions that we could see?
Please do not re-identify the white wire. :happysad: If you are going to use that wire what makes more sense, leave it white and say your understanding of the manf. specs was wrong or I purposely violated the code?
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
I decided to just tape it and transfer the white to the ground bar from neutral bar. Had it been coming from the service I would just have left it but Id rather the panel remain a 4 wire feed
I didn't read this before my above post.
Now you have made it worse. You are connecting what is probably labeled "N" in the oven to an equipment grounding bar in a 'sub' panel?
250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
250.138 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment. Non?
current-carrying metal parts of cord-and-plug-connected
equipment, if grounded, shall be connected to an equipment
grounding conductor by one of the methods in 250.138(A)
or (B).
(B) By Means of a Separate Flexible Wire or Strap. By
means of a separate flexible wire or strap, insulated or bare,
connected to an equipment grounding conductor, and protected
as well as practicable against physical damage,
where part of equipment.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
A. This is a dryer.
B. It is just as likely that the wire is labelled PE for Protective Earth (I.e. EGC) rather than N for neutral, but only the OP is in a position to check this out.
Tapatalk!
B. It is just as likely that the wire is labelled PE for Protective Earth (I.e. EGC) rather than N for neutral, but only the OP is in a position to check this out.
Tapatalk!
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
The laundry is on the second floor and fed from a 125 amp 4 wire subpanel in the attached garage which feeds most of the house. Home run is 10/3 without ground.
The dryer is a Bosch which also has a 240 volt plug for the washer. Because both the washer and dryer are going to be the same egc Id rather have both of them grounded correctly.
Here are the specs:
http://www.bosch-home.com/us/produc.../compact-dryers/WTB86201UC.html?source=browse
Click on the first one in the list for the install instructions:
https://portal.bsh-partner.com/portal(bD1kZSZjPTAwOQ==)/PORTALFRAME.HTM
JDBrown
Senior Member
- Location
- California
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
Take a closer look at the question. First off, this is a dryer, not an oven. More importantly, the OP made it clear that this dryer is wired for straight 240V, NOT 120/240V -- so there is no neutral, just 2 hots and a ground. By reidentifying the white wire as an EGC and moving it to the ground bus, he is NOT connecting a neutral terminal to the ground bus; he's avoiding a connection from a ground terminal to the neutral bus.
All that being said, this solution does violate the letter of the code, -- but only because of an arbitrary rule limiting the size of conductors that can be reidentified. The ideal solution would be to replace the wiring, but that's not always feasible. If, for whatever reason, the wiring can't be replaced, then ANY solution is going to be a violation. Of all the possible violations an inspector might be persuaded to overlook, I think the one suggested above is the least egregious, as it doesn't cause any actual hazards to life or equipment.
Sent from my WM8850-mid using Tapatalk
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
From the manual:
Now there are more instructions. I just hit the highlights.
Now there are more instructions. I just hit the highlights.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
And if the diagram in the manual is to be trusted, the ONLY connection made to the N terminal on the dryer side is the PE connection. I would not interpret the letter N by itself as an indication that a neutral connection is in fact needed.
Tapatalk!
Tapatalk!
- Status