Protection From Physical Damage, but??

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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

This does not make any sense. If the metering equipment is a source of ignition, then I can't stand next to a gas meter with a lighter in my pocket.

An open flame or arcing device like a furnace ignitor are ignition sources. A watthour meter does not fit the definition.
 

cselectric

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Which is certainly a valid point of contention Bennie. But, my POCO doesn't care to explore that. They specify a three foot seperation. I asked a rep. about this at one point and was directed to the NFPA doucmentation that Joe stated. I must profess to not pushing it farther than that. Not that your point isn't valid. But, near as I can tell, it would be easier to get the code changed than it would be to get my POCO to grant a variance or change a ruling. :)
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

The violation, if one exists, would fall on the last installer.

There is probably landing lugs in the can, the panels are likely fed from the back of the meter enclosure, based on the elevation.

This installation does not require being worked on while energized. What can you do with live unfused conductors? except be a suicide bomber.
 

websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Bennie,

I wonder if the meter guy that shows up to change a meter or investigate a problem with the CT's would agree with your opinion?
This installation does not require being worked on while energized. What can you do with live unfused conductors? except be a suicide bomber.
Really Bennie, give it up! Safety is ALWAYS first!

[ September 23, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: websparky ]
 

bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

I will concede if this installation can be proven a hazard.

From the rusted cover it appears to be in place for a considerable length of time. What is the body count?

I am aware of safety, but reality also has to play a part in judgement.

This metering system may be in a narrow driveway. The posts, possibly, cannot be installed farther away.
 

websparky

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Originally posted by bennie:
I will concede if this installation can be proven a hazard.

From the rusted cover it appears to be in place for a considerable length of time. What is the body count?

I am aware of safety, but reality also has to play a part in judgement.

This metering system may be in a narrow driveway. The posts, possibly, cannot be installed farther away.
1. "if"
The NEC is based on past experience, there is NO if. Do you think they pull these numbers out of a hat?

2. "body count" Yes. Enough for the formost authority to specify the dangers.

3. This is in a wide open parking lot / delivery area.

Bennie, give it up!
 

russellroberts

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

The question I have is how would you go about getting the clearance problem resolved?

Would a municipal electrical ahj have authority?

I'm asking because I don't know.

Russell
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Joe, please send me a private message to let me know where this is located in Indianapolis. I would like to see it.

It is obvious that the gas was installed after our cash registers (meters) were installed. We require the same as 110.26 except we require 4' in front of the metering equipment regardless of the voltage. We also require 3' of clearance to the gas meter for working room since the meter is not a spark producing device. Sorry Joe, the NFPA 54 Staff Liaison just has an opinion and so does EEI. Without a formal interpretation, neither is worth a d - - -.

At the time of this installation, incident energy was not an issue. We do replace meters and do a limited amount of testing while hot and under load (we use jumpers to keep power on to the service and use the appropriate PPE). In this particular case, the meter person would cover the post and barrier with rubber blankets before working hot. After he is in his PPE and the grounded (maybe) surfaces are covered, he can do his work.

I am also wondering if a conduit is not behind the R/H post since we do not allow unmetered conductors inside a building. Assuming that is the case, that is not a CT cabinet but a junction box that is feeding 2-200 ampere services.

If you are old enough to have used very accurate analog (I know, what's that?) equipment, you will remember the mirror that was behind the needle. The purpose of the mirror was to line up the needle with its reflection to make sure parallax was not a problem.

This installation is basically under the purview of the electric utility and the NESC since the service point is in the junction cabinet and IPL owns and controls the meter fittings. :D
 

charlie

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

That is the problem with using slang and acronyms, by using an acronym, you didn't understand my answer. If this were important, someone could get hurt if they didn't ask what you meant by using a certain term.

OK, enough of the soapbox. A CT cabinet is a cabinet that would hold CTs (current transformers) and maybe PTs (potential transformers). Instrument transformers like CTs and PTs are used to send a proportional amount of current or voltage to a meter so the meter would not have to be built large enough to handle the amperes or voltage. :D
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Hey Charlie,
You're a Moderator. How about starting a mikeholt.com FORUM GLOSSARY. Whenever an Acronym, Abbreviation, or Slang is used you could post it to the glossary with a basic description. It would be understood that these would be for internal benefit here on this fine forum.
Most Respectfully,
../Wayne C.

PS: Some suggestions: Kicker; Lighter; Stinger; OP; CT; FYI; IMO; Etc.
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Originally posted by awwt:
How about starting a mikeholt.com FORUM GLOSSARY. Whenever an Acronym, Abbreviation, or Slang is used you could post it to the glossary with a basic description.
Good idea. I second that motion!

-John
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

OK. We can leave that one out :)

I'm sensing some hostility in your last few posts that follow mine. Are you upset with me? Or, is it just coincidence? Let me know so I can try to fix it. Thanks!

../Wayne C.

[ October 23, 2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 
G

Guest

Guest
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

Whew! That's what I thought. Just checking to be sure :)

The last several following mine were just a little edgier than usual :)

../Wayne C.

[ October 23, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]
 

electricman2

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Protection From Physical Damage, but??

I'm glad I am not the only one who doesn't understand all these acronyms. Please tell me what IMO means.
 
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